Since you've hit the brink wall what's your next step? I mean you can comerizerate all you want here (cuz we do know what you're going through and how frustrating and painful it can get and talking it out here may help you feel better) but what do you think you should do about this relationship?
It is SO depressing when you just can't get through to someone
by ilikecheese 44 Replies latest jw friends
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ShadesofGrey
Combatting Cult Mind Control and How to Rescue Your Loved one from the Watchtower, Ten Things you should tell a JW.
I had a very good discussion with my dad. When I type it out I will link you to it so it will give you an idea of how to ask questions.
And don't forget the power of prayer. I have all my friends praying. :)
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extractor
The most useful book I've found is, Approaching Jehovah's Witnesses in Love: How to Witness Effectively Without Arguing by Wilbur Lingle
I agree with others, since he's dating you AND he's been to your church it doesn't seem like his actions are matching his rhetoric.
Check your PM box.
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Ding
I thought I was making headway, but it seems like the more I make him think a little bit, the harder he sticks to it.
He may have invested his whole life in the WT religion.
The fact that he has attended church with you and is dating you shows that he doesn't fully believe it himself.
Sometimes the best course is to give the JW time and space to process all that they've seen and let them battle it out in their own mind.
If you attack it, he will defend it; if you stop attacking it, he will have his own thoughts to deal with.
Maybe he will suppress all his doubts and stay with the borg until the day he dies, but maybe he will see the light and leave as so many people here have done.
It doesn't sound like you're in danger of giving in and joining the borg yourself, but love does strange things to people.
Make sure you don't get sucked in.
What he chooses for himself is beyond your control.
Keep praying for him.
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Morbidzbaby
Will he allow you to discuss the Bible with him? Can you both do so without arguing over doctrine or without one of you getting angry?
The reason I ask is because I picked up a book at the used book store last week...had my eye on it for awhile... Reasoning from the Scriptures with the Jehovah's Witnesses by Ron Rhodes. I myself am not a Christian, not a JW anymore either, but my parents are still JW's and consider themselves to be Christian. I bought this book because it uses the Bible to appeal to JW's. It shows their major doctrines and beliefs, shows the scriptures they use from their Bible and quotes from their literature...then it uses other translations of the Bible, the entire context of the scriptures they use...it then gives you questions you can ask them to cause them to think...and it blows their doctrines out of the water. If my parents start a conversation again about this organization, I will be prepared to answer them from the Bible itself, even though I don't believe in it. I know my mother does...she accused me before of "trying to tear her away from her god", which was never my intention. She can believe in a GOD all she wants...but she really puts her trust in the Watchtower, and that's all there is to it.
I agree with Shirley...if he's dating you, he can be marked as bad association and will lose his friend if they find out... and by going to your church services, he's practicing what the JW's refer to as "interfaith", which is a disfellowshipping offense. So basically, if the elders find out about what he's doing NOW as an active JW, he'd be subjected to the very same thing some of us have with regard to being accused of apostasy and possibly being kicked out. How loving is THAT? But yet...he knows he shouldn't be dating you, according to them, nor should he be attending other churches...so he's not keen on following all of their rules.
As for being the only ones who are "living right"...according to his definition (which would most likely be synonymous with the Watchtower definition), this includes doing house-to-house preaching, not celebrating hoidays or birthdays, not cursing, not drinking heavily, not smoking, not committing "fornication"... However, I know of plenty of people who don't curse, don't drink, and don't smoke or fornicate...and they're not Jehovah's Witnesses. You don't have to be a JW to live a moral life. If he thinks that the fact that the JW's go house-to-house in harmony with some Biblical command is what makes them the right religion, then he's sorely mistaken...this wasn't even a command in the Bible. In fact, Paul didn't go house-to-house, it was likely he went from house-church to house-church preaching to small groups. Jesus himself said "do not be transferring from house to house". Jesus commanded his followers NOT to go from house-to-house. So, if anything, that makes the Watchtower Society in error for the fact that they DO.
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Black Sheep
And I will definitely try harder to be the question asker and less the "enemy."
That's exactly what I meant.
What I am hoping is that, by both of you educating yourselves in a structured technique for critical thinking, you will know how to ask a question in a way that he will want to answer it, and both of you (and especially him) will be able to recognise when his answer is illogical, or when he is using an illogical excuse for not answering.
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garyneal
I tried to comment earlier but I was visiting parents and the Internet service was spotty. I am back home now and can fully comment.
Just a question. Where do you see yourself with him in say, 5 years, 10 years, or more? Marraige, kids? Is it important to you that you both go to the same church? Do you secretly hope that he will see that his religion is not up to snuff and that he may come over to yours? If you are like I was 8 years ago you would probably say, "Nah, it does not matter. I respect his choices as long as he respects mine." However, you really need to think about this, and think about this some more. Think about what you really want and what you would really like your family life to be like.
My wife is a witness and she will not leave the religion without becoming an atheist or agnostic. For years, I never understood why this was. I left many churches without "leaving God" but leaving the Jehovah's Witness religion is not the same as leaving a church. Most churches accept other churches as valid, even if only half heartedly. The witness religion accepts no other religion as valid and spends a great deal of time invalidating every other religious faith out there except their own. Once they wake up and realize that there faith may be equally invalid, they may just give up on faith altogether. "Where else can they go?"
Do you want daddy telling the kiddos that mommy may die at Armagheddon even though she goes to church and believes in God, he might? If he reads to them from the Learn from the Great Teacher book, your kids will learn things like, celebrating Christmas and birthdays displeases Jehovah and touching your genitals makes the demons happy. Do you want your future kids exposed to that?
Take a real assessment of what you really want in a future husband. Don't try to change people, it never works. Perhaps you should let him go so he can find a good little witness girl to be with.
Oh, and one more thing. If your boyfriend is engaging in things witnesses are not suppose to engage in (like having a relationship with you) don't think for a minute that he won't change back into a full fledged witness. My witness wife participated in holiday celebrations, threw birthday parties, took our oldest out trick or treating, and went to holiday parties. She did this for years up until 2 years ago. She got frustrated with feeling that she was 'inadequate' and our marriage, like all marriages, hit its rough patches and made her go more and more into the religion. Yours will too, unless he himself no longer believes in the religion.
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mamalove
So you are a "worldly" girl? Does he view you with adoration and love, or does he view your relationship as sinful and shameful?
Either ride out the relationship for any joy and fun times left and prime your mind for the moving on stage, or accept that this will be a huge elephant in the room and it will be most likely the relationship won't last. Perhaps start distancing yourself and see what he does.
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ShadesofGrey
My wife is a witness and she will not leave the religion without becoming an atheist or agnostic. For years, I never understood why this was. I left many churches without "leaving God" but leaving the Jehovah's Witness religion is not the same as leaving a church. Most churches accept other churches as valid, even if only half heartedly. The witness religion accepts no other religion as valid and spends a great deal of time invalidating every other religious faith out there except their own. Once they wake up and realize that there faith may be equally invalid, they may just give up on faith altogether. "Where else can they go?"
Well, I will tell you what happened with me. I read a WT comparing the JW governing body to Moses and realized that they were trying to take Christ's position. My life changed right then and there. I am now a born-again Christian.
I told my husband and he went about researching the 1914 doctrine, then a missionary (JWinfo.net, contact him!!!!) showed him that Jesus is Jehovah and he was Born Again.
He called his sister, told her what he had learned and by the end of the conversation she said Jesus is the Lord.
With God all things are possible.
Where else can they go?
"Come to ME all who are weary and heavy-laden, and I will give you rest." Matthew 11:28
http://4jehovah.org/anne-marie-s-corner/but-where-else-is-there-to-go.php
Christianity is not a religion, is not a denomination, but a relationship with Jesus Christ. And how can we not love Him?
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ziddina
Cheers.... damn I'd better stop there - that stuff's fattening!!!
I am so sorry that you're going through this... I'm not quite in the same sitation; I don't have anyone still "in"...
But I can see why you might choose to end the relationship - if your boyfriend hasn't completely left the cult, mentally AND emotionally, it would be much more difficult AND heartbreaking to remain with him - especially down the road, when children are involved...
As long as he remains blind, the threat that he might return to the cult, will always be there...
I wish you the very best in moving forward with your life, knowing that there will be someone there for you, and I fervently hope that the person you will eventually come to know and love will be free of any cult influences...
Perhaps losing you will wake this one up, but I'd strongly advise you to treat the situation as though it were permanently ended [if you choose to go that route], and move on with YOUR life, in a direction that will give YOU fulfillment.
Zid