Atheists are as trustworthy as rapists

by rebel8 38 Replies latest jw friends

  • tec
    tec

    Can someone point out exactly why this study is flawed?

    For one, throwing in rapist as a choice is silly. Because the person who most likely hit your car and didn't stick around is more likely to be any of the other three choices than a rapist. Then it merely becomes a question of believer vs. non-believer.

    Second, the answers do not support findings. Because atheist was chosen as more likely in a random hit-and-run than a rapist, that means Christians think atheists are on equal standing with rapists?

    Also, if this was a Canadian study, why were the participants all American?

    Also, if that is the case, then the results show only that American Christians (in these areas/age groups/whatever) think... "whatever".

    Those are some of my thoughts, anyway. Did you read the link BTS provided?

    Peace,

    Tammy

  • Band on the Run
    Band on the Run

    Isn't the article merely noting statistical evidence rather than endorsing the discussed behavior? Rape is a crime typified by violence. Trustworthiness is not an aspect.

    It is a ridiculous attitude. Nevertheless, I like joining church orgs to meet men. Women feel that men who attend church are more likely to marry and have strong family values. There was a time when everyone had to attend church. The belief does not make sense. I doubt there is a church genes that mediates behaviors. I would counsel my daughter to attend church solely for social reasons. It is a nice myth that gives comfort.

    I'm thinking of the French resistance to the Nazis. The communists and existentialists were the key players not Christians as such. I doubt if morality and church attendance correlate.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    The study may be flawed, I'm still looking at things---but the points made in BTS's link are also flawed.

    The second study recruited 105 UBC undergrads —they purposely targeted a more liberal sample from a less-religious nation — to test whether distrust of atheists is more pronounced than distrust of other groups, including Muslims. The students read a description of an untrustworthy man who pretended to leave insurance information after backing his car into a parked vehicle and were asked to say whether it was more likely the man was either a Christian, Muslim, rapist or an atheist. People were far more likely to say he was either an atheist or a rapist and not part of a religious group. They did not significantly differentiate atheists from rapists, something Mr. Gervais found disconcerting.

    1, it doesn't seem odd to me that Christians would assume he's not a Christian. It may be irrational, but it is perfectly understandable to assume that "Someone Like Me" wouldn't be up to some funky business.

    They targeted a sample from a less-religous nation. It's not clear what nation, or what liberal means---however it also is not clear that they chose Christians. The response makes the claim that Christians would not distrust their own---but who said those questioned were their own either?

    The resulting paper, published in the current online issue of the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, includes six studies all designed to measure people’s perception of an atheist’s trustworthiness. The first study asked 351 Americans from across the country to compare the trustworthiness of an atheist and a gay man, since both represent groups often described as threatening to majority religious values. MThey rated atheists significantly higher than gay men on distrust, though lower on levels of disgust.

    What? This seems like a very strange way to do things. "Compare atheists to gays"?

    Again with the "Are you kidding? At least we're not homos!" stuff.

    Another nonsense response. The original statement was using a compare and contrast model---gay men are traditionally targetted by religious groups---atheists also are---how do they compare?

    !

    The research began a few years ago, when a series of polls revealed atheists to be some of the least liked people in areas with religious majorities, which is to say, much of the world. In one poll, only 45% of American respondents said they would vote for a qualified atheist presidential candidate and overwhelmingly preferred to vote for African American, Jewish and female candidates. Americans also rated atheists as the group that least agrees with their vision for the country and the group they’d most disapprove of their child marrying.

    This is a funny statement. It's almost like they're saying, "Seriously, you trust us less than those darkies and sheenies? Come on! At least we're white!"

    Again, more hyperbolic nonsense. They were NOT saying anything of the kind. They were simply reporting that Americans would vote for an African American, a woman, or a Jew before they would vote for an atheist. That is 100% true. They weren't commenting that those 3 groups were poor choices--or good choices---they were simply measuring and comparing how deep the distrust ran against atheists. An atheist could not win the presidency today. That is a fact. Obama didn't mention God in his Thanksgiving greeting, and you'd think the sky had fallen in. Even though Bush and Clinton both failed to mention God in some of their Thanksgiving greetings.

    This link does not discredit the study. This link imputes false motives to what the researchers are saying. The researchers give information on the data they have, and this guy freaks and says they are saying "At least we aren't homos!"

  • tec
    tec

    Yeah, NC, he was flawed in his thoughts as well. But the study is also flawed... or at least what I've read about it is flawed. But again, I think all of these studies are flawed, at least somewhat.

    Christian, Muslim, atheist, rapist ... as choices... does not mean that Christians think that atheists are on an equal moral footing as a rapist. Some might - and probably do - think that. But since rapists are also 'Christian', 'Muslim', and 'atheist', and anything else; then adding rapist in there is... ? I'm not sure what word I'm looking for here. Biased/leading?

  • tec
    tec

    An interesting side-by-side study would have been to ask atheists what they think, given the same questions.

  • tec
    tec

    You know what... the study might not be overly flawed (havent' looked at it really). It could just be the news article, which I did read.

    I'm going to give my view on this though.

    I don't think that most believers equate atheists and rapists in a moral equivalency. I do think that most believers are more apt to trust a fellow believer, than anyone else. And that is all the results that I think can be drawn from that type of a study. Personally, I think that makes sense. Someone who is 'supposed' to live by the same creeds you live by, has a leg up on your trust... over someone you know nothing about.

    Peace,

    Tammy

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Yeah, it's hard to get details from an abstract and an article. The actual data is probably overwhelming and hard to understand.

    NC

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    I don't know Tec---I think the issue is only about trust. Not that people think that atheists will rape---but that they don't trust them anymore than they trust rapists. The abstract brings out that the distrust comes out in relation to high authority duties. So while they may trust a woman alone with an atheist before they would do so with a rapist, when it comes to power and authority neither would trusted. I think this is true. An atheist could not be elected president today.

    I think the researchers were surprised that atheists garnered the same amount of distrust that rapists do. This would be based solely on emotion, because the facts don't support the mistrust, but the mistrust most definitely is there.

    My brother has been an atheist all his life. I'm new to the gig. It is shocking what people have said to him and also what they thought he was capable of. To deny that it exists isn't reasonable, so I think the issue is to what extent it exists. Many people, even moderates, believe that atheists don't live by any REAL moral code, or believe that code is extremely flexible.

    NC

  • tec
    tec

    My brother has been an atheist all his life. I'm new to the gig. It is shocking what people have said to him and also what they thought he was capable of. To deny that it exists isn't reasonable, so I think the issue is to what extent it exists. Many people, even moderates, believe that atheists don't live by any REAL moral code, or believe that code is extremely flexible.

    Oh, I agree. It totally exists.

    But I do not agree that the answers (if the rest of the questions are anything like that one about the car/insurance/hit and run) support the finding that atheists are thought of as (un) trustworthy as rapists. Only that they are more prone to trust a fellow believer (according to the morals they are supposed to live by) over someone's whose morals they know nothing about.

    Peace,

    Tammy

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Right----they trust them as much as they trust a rapist--but in different contexts. It's predudicial as is the thought that they know ANYTHING about the morals about someone that shares their faith. I sat and listened for 20 minutes to a fellow student and a neighbor as she explained how she purposely answered a biology question wrong because it would have supported evolution and that would have been really wrong! She has a prolife sign up in her window and talks about her religion all the time. The next 10 minutes were her telling me all the ways she has found to beat the parking costs at school---from parking in the staff lot to fudging her ticket. And I, the atheist, would NEVER do that because they keep the lot plowed and lit and have installed emergency phones and will walk me to my car at night. Why wouldn't a pay A DOLLAR A DAY for that kind of service? For that matter, I got there one day and didn't have my ticket, so I knew all the ways to beat the system because of my Christian neighbor, but just left my car, accepted the 15 dollar ticket and paid it.

    It's the prejudice that is disturbing. The thought that a religious person will be honest, but an atheist will not. That is what they are measuring---not IF the atheist is less honest, just whether people think they are. And they do.

    NC

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