What did Jesus mean at Matthew 10:34-36?

by serenitynow! 73 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  bioflex

  Does all posts about the bible have to be like this? what is wrong with some of you people?

  @serenitynow : Salvation is based on an individual basis, not family, or church. Its each man for himself. I would suggest you read the whole chapter to get what Jesus was saying. Its about being able to stand for the faith in truth no matter the circumstances you face. Father being turned against son shows the severity of the times we are headed into. Selfisness had become the order of the day now, people merely think about others apart from themselves. Even brothers are turned against each other for that sake of vain things (wealth, fame,power). But in all we should be able to stand for the truth and await the reward.

  One thing many JW's don't realise is that the WT teach that its each man for himself when it comes to salvation/judgement. The truth can only come from the word of God (bible) and not through any church or organisation.
• 

  man oh man

  Jesus here shows that the truth.....that is the real truth Jesus himself would cause division. He is in no way promoting shunning since he himself never taught such. He shows the problem comes from accepting him. Notice what he says in this verse,

  40He who receives and welcomes and accepts you receives and welcomes and accepts Me, and he who receives and welcomes and accepts Me receives and welcomes and accepts Him Who sent Me.

  The watchtower applies this in reverse. In their mind they must shun those that have violated watchtower rules. They think that proves they love god more than family. But what is Jesus saying? Not that a person should shun family but that you yourself may be treated badly by others sometimes even by close family, just because you choose to accept him that is Christ. The sword Jesus speaks of has to be tribulation since Jesus would not use a literal sword.

  If it came to a showdown with these scriptures, personally I would say hey I accept Jesus. Then focus on verse 40. Looks like they have a problem. Anything they say further just shows judgement something Jesus also spoke against.
• 

  ProdigalSon

  tec:

  I understand sword to mean truth. The truth is rarely pleasant for us to hear or face, about ourselves.

  I think Christ's words... 'turning a man against his father, etc'... are simply a telling of what is going to happen when some face and follow the truth; and others hate the truth and those who follow the truth. So that there would be division in households.

  The real truth would indeed turn any "normal" family, in fact all of humanity, upside down, but then there are wacky lies that would also alienate one from one's family, such as getting involved with a mind-control cult....and the Watchtower takes full advantage of using this scripture to promote their wacky lies. But think for another minute about what Jesus is saying.... what could make your own family members want to KILL you? Something that comes out of your mouth that threatens to expose their whole shallow and meaningless existence for what it is.... a waste of precious life, instead of working to attain Christhood.

  And therein lies the biggest problem with Orthodox believers like yourself tec.... maybe this is what frustrates your husband.... you and all the other literalist Christians will do nothing that actually challenges the status quo, but will instead wait for your savior to do it all for you. That is the purpose of ALL religions, to keep the status quo, the Power Elite in power. Why not, instead, use your energies to overthrow the Old World Order like Jesus did?
• 

  tec

  And therein lies the biggest problem with Orthodox believers like yourself tec.... maybe this is what frustrates your husband.... you and all the other literalist Christians will do nothing that actually challenges the status quo, but will instead wait for your savior to do it all for

  you. That is the purpose of ALL religions, to keep the status quo, the Power Elite in power. Why not, instead, use your energies to overthrow the Old World Order like Jesus did?

  How would you define orthodo x believer?

  I don't belong to a religion, and yes, I do think that would frustrate my husband... if I belonged to a religion, and if I wanted to keep some power elite in power. But I don't.

  I use my energies to follow Christ as best as I can.

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  PSacramento

  Well, we really can't say that we KNOW what Christ meant, but we can try to understand based on what else he dais before and after that and how he acted and how he asked US to act.

  It was a warning to his disciples of the hardships ahead, what they would face as they preached the Gospel.

  Their own families ( Jews of the 1st century) would go against them because they would disgree with what they ( the disciples) believed.

  Of course we need to understand the context of what didi happen after that :

  The preached the Kingdom of God, that Christ was the messiah, the Son of God, that he was ressurected and would come again.

  They were indeed persecutred, thrown out of the synagouges, stoned, killed and their own families did indeed trun on them.

  What happend has NOTHING to do with what the JW's DO.

  The disciples were on the receiving end of the shunning of their families, they were NOT the ones DOING the shunning and THAT makes ALL the difference in the world.
• 

  tec

  The disciples were on the receiving end of the shunning of their families, they were NOT the ones DOING the shunning and THAT makes ALL the difference in the world. Yes. This. Peace, Tammu
• 

  Ding

  I agree with Tammy.

  Jesus is saying that it is inevitable that there will be division because of him, not that he wants families to be divided. The split in the relationship will be initiated and forced by non-Christian OPPOSERS of Jesus, not by Jesus' followers under the guise of keeping an organization clean. An example of this is seen in 1 Corinthians 7:12-15. A person who becomes a Christian shouldn't seek a divorce from an unbelieving spouse. The family should only be split up over Jesus if the unbelieving spouse insists on it because they can't stand the believing spouse's commitment to Jesus.

  Also, remember that in Matthew 10, Jesus was talking about division because of someone's loyalty to JESUS, not because of blind loyalty to the self-appointed "representative" of Jehovah, the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society and its false prophecies, ever-changing doctrines, and excessive legalism. Once again, the WTS' interpretation writes Jesus out of the scriptures and writes the organization in to replace him. In the New Testament, Jesus is the only way to God. In Watchtowerland, the Watchtower organization is the only way to God.

  JWs are following a bunch of men in Brooklyn and dividing families because of THEM. If someone says they are going to follow Jesus but not the men in Brooklyn, the WTS brands them followers of Satan and requires JWs to shun them. In such a situation, the WT leaders are the opposers of Jesus who are creating the division, fulfilling what Jesus said would happen in Matthew 10. (The same thing happens in other religions such as Islam when a person becomes a follower of Jesus. It's the opposers of faith in Jesus that are requiring the division.)

  Don't let your JW family put your into a corner by citing you anti-apostate verses. Once again, those verses are NOT talking about loyalty to a group of men in Brooklyn who claim to speak for God but who keep having to come up with "new light" every time they are shown to be wrong.
• 

  ProdigalSon

  How would you define orthodox believer?

  Someone who believes that "faith in Jesus" is all you need and he will come back and fix it all.

  I got news for ya....

  Jesus ain't coming to save anybody, and neither are any of the other saviors. Humanity already has everything it needs within it to save itself. It's simply a matter of waking up.
• 

  tec

  Well, you are of course entitled to your own beliefs.

  Mine, of course, are that Christ does indeed save, and that He will return for those who belong to Him, as He said He would do. He grants Life, because life is within Him to grant. My faith is in Him.

  How is it that you think that humanity can give itself life?

  Peace,

  Tammy
• 

  No Room For George

  The Gospels while leaving out plenty that Jesus had said and done, still presented a picture of people not knowing exactly how to take they guy, or what to make of him. Some people adored him and recognized him as the Messiah. Others hated his guts and wanted him either locked up or dead. Others were afraid to express their positive views of him for fear of being ostracized, so they maintained the party line. I imagine this collage of sentiments and feelings were present even within the family unit. Remember even Jesus' own brothers and sisters didn't necessarily believe in him right away, so it shouldn't be surprising that his non-relatives had mixed emotions about him as well.

  The impression your left with as the records states, the nation as a whole rejected him, yet there were still plenty who wanted to make him king. Crowds were said to have followed him to hear his teachings. Sounds like the whole nation was divided over what to make of him, and that only increased after he died and Christianity began to grow. Jews, and Gentiles alike, had to make the choice of following Christ, or sticking with whatever religion they were born into, or was proiminent in their community. That had to have created tensions within families and amongst friends, probably more so back then, than it does nowadays when someone abandons the religion they were born into, or whatever is prominent in their community.