by Mindchild 68 Replies latest jw friends
You Know,
You don't have to reply to my last post, but please give it some thought. I really thought about this subject as part of my JW exit.
I'm signing off now.
Take care,
cellomould
"In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ
You know,
You're just a scare mongerer and full of crap . People who claim to be possessed just have some mental disorder. Demons, dragons, harry potter, Lord of the rings are just human creations. If this world is possessed, the demons are doing a lousy job. The world isn't as bad as you make it out as.
When FredHall refers to "newspapers" he's talking about those that line his litterbox. Like the Watchtower and Awake! And maybe a National Enquirer or Star News on those weeks when the Social Security checks come.
One of the most humourous things a dub ever said regarding the presence of demons and Satan the Devil was something to the effect that the most clever and most effective ploy Satan et al. have in conducting their evil schemes on the world and its inhabitants was to get people to not believe in their existence. In other words, when bad things happen, JWs automatically believe that the Devil had a hand in it, whereas people who don't necessarily believe that the Devil is in control of world events actually contribute to the harm done by the Devil because their guard is down and they are primed to do the Devil's bidding.
'The Smurfs believe and they shudder!'
Love, Scully
In the desert things find a way to survive. Secrets are like this too. They work their way up through the sands of deception so men can know them. - The X Files
You Know,
Let me just say that I know people that you know.
One thing we have in common, we both like Bob Dylan.
edster
You're just a scare mongerer and full of crap
You don't know. You simply have an opinion and you obviously haven't considered this in depth. Jesus certainly wasn't a fear monger. He knew the truth.
People who claim to be possessed just have some mental disorder.That's silly. People can have mental illness and not be possessed, but if a person is possessed they may not even recognize it. Some do, of course, but the demons create a lot of mental confusion and the victim usually becomes very disoriented. The thing though that cannot be so easily dismissed by nay sayers, is that with so many of those who hear voices, the voices frequently are telling them to do really horrible things that the person ordinarily would not even consider doing.
Demons, dragons, harry potter, Lord of the rings are just human creations.Sure. Humans have invented an elaborate mythology around the demons. But, that merely serves as camolfauge for the demons.
If this world is possessed, the demons are doing a lousy job. The world isn't as bad as you make it out as.The Devil certainly has the power to make evil things appear to be not so bad. The Bible say's that the Devil can transform himself into an angel of light. And it doesn't help that humans are so naive. But, when Jehovah God forces the issue and makes his move on Satan to remove him, the Devil could be in your face like there's no tomorrow, because he'll know then that there is no tomorrow. That's when your whole notion of how pleasant the world is will go up in smoke and you will be forced to deal with a whole new reality. The fact is that the Devil has the whole world rigged with enough explosives, chemical weapons, biological weapons, and enough crazy people to pull the triggers, that at a moment's notice your world could turn into a living nightmare. / You Know
I also do believe that world is run by demons = aliens.
It’s simple.
There are to may ghost apparitions, miracles, prophecies,
conspiracies, possessions, exorcisms, UFO sightings, ET sightings,
miraculous healings, pure demonism, haunted homes and places,
out of body experiences, etc. etc to ignore these things.
There are millions of examples that something weird is going on.
It does not mean that I do believe in WTS. Actually I do believe
That WTS is one of perfect tools of demons. They are catching
Up fine individuals who are honest and do not like an idea of world,
being run by demons. ;-P
I would put = between: demons = aliens = grays = ufo = et
USA cooperation with aliens is one of the hottest subject on the net.
Any research on it causes problems.
That’s for a nice start.
Yep.... Prepare for a shock here....
I have found this web site and I was in the deep shock.
http://www.davidicke.com/icke/index.html
What I have found also is that guy, unfortunately he was KILLED
few weeks ago for posting similar kind of explanations.(Cooper)
I was quiet active doing research on alt.aliens.research NG and I have found
two web pages which caught my interest.
First was David Icke and than was William Cooper. I have found also a web
page of Dr. Steven Greer. http://www.cseti.com/ with very interesting
"Disclosure
Project". After while I came to conclusion that Steven Greer is working for
USA
government spreading some kind of news which are a bit weird and purpose of
his activities is at least weird.
Of course I was asking some questions and I was in the trouble there... ;-P
I've looked closer to William Cooper pages and I was surprised how dangerous
his views were to USA government! Two weeks before poor guy was shot,
I asked simple question why Greer is not touched by any agency and Cooper
is running like mad and I was wondering why he was still alive!!!
Than, two weeks later he was dead. I could not believe it!!!
When I've asked some serious questions about William Cooper, I was
threatened by FBI. It happened after I was proving that guy was murdered
and it was not an accident.
If you are searching for the truth, try these links, be open minded to it!
I think it is happening exactly as these guys are talking about. I still do
have
the video take which talks about NWO, made in 1983. The man on video
does not exist anymore.
Read all of it, check it out and post some new info.
I may hate WTS for their lies but I think the Bible in Revelation tells us
the truth!
One more thing. If demons do afraid WTS, Jehovah and book Truth.
They do afraid cross, Christ, the Catholic Bible and Holy Water.
That would means that all these religions who are using these things are true?????
LARK:
Let me just say that I know people that you know.
Let me just say that you might know people who THINK they know me. Neither of my parents were Jehovah's Witnesses. I didn't come in contact with Jehovah's Witnesses until I was 20 years old. I told my story, part of it anyway, on H20 a few years back. / You Know
Hey You Know, thanks for spending the time to present the JW worldview but for the life of me I can’t see anything but magical thinking expressed here. I guess demons don’t know how to block logical thoughts yet so you must bear with me as we do some thought experiments here with your conceptualizations.
First, I should explain that I’m not completely unfamiliar with the belief of the occult. Back in college I did a lot of research on parapsychology, ESP, remote seeing, telekinetics, telepathy, UFO’s, and the like. When I first started reading papers and books on the topics, it certainly looked plausible that there might be something really strange going on, but when I really put things to the test to see if there was anything supernatural the math always came out nil. I guess the demons must be controlling the mathematic and statistical sciences as well. There are still some unexplained events but most things I researched left me believing more in the power of the imagination vs. any supernatural power.
Take hypnosis for example. A person who is susceptible to hypnosis can be given a suggestion that fools their senses completely. One case I read about was of a subject being told that the pencil touching his arm was actually a lit cigarette and that he was tied down to the chair and couldn’t move. Interestingly enough, after the subject screamed in agony real blisters formed on his arms where the pencil lightly touched him. I’ve seen some remarkable things that people can do when they are in a trance like state, whether it be from hypnosis or meditation and it appears to be simply the ability all of us have to do things without conscious effort. To my way of thinking, this discredits completely any so called demon influence on everything from crystal balls to Satanic board games, as any effects observed are simply the unconscious mind at work, not demons.
So, as I’m very skeptical in nature of any personal experiences, it doesn’t add up. What about the personal experiences people have? Like you claim to have experienced before you became a dub? Again, it is only your mind playing tricks on you. In the laboratory we can immediately make a person have a vision of gods, devils, demons, angels or whatever you want to dish up by inducing eddy currents in the neurocortex of the brain. Years ago research neurosurgeons Wilder Penfield and Jose Delgado demonstrated how ESB (direct electrical stimulation of the brain) could create audio and visual hallucinations and we know now that many people with defective brain architecture suffer from minor forms of epilepsy (they don’t even realize they have it) and sometimes voices or hallucinations will result and they understandably are either frightened by this or think it is God talking to them. We understand the neurochemical imbalances of the brain better now and realize that it is rather easy to raise or lower neurotransmitter levels of the brain by our diets, activities, environment and so forth. If you want to have wild visions and go psychotic this is all you need to do, you don’t need no demons to do it for you.
So, putting it frankly, there is not a single bit of evidence you showed that points to any real superhuman entities. All known effects of so-called demon activity can be more easily and logically explained and better yet, treated by medical science. How is it that drugs can stop people from seeing demons or hearing voices? I thought drugs were supposed to make you more susceptible to demons.
In the examples you gave of your magical JW thinking, everything is simply the result of you wanting to believe it to be real, no real evidence at all. You claim that the demons are blinding me to their existence but admit that you feel they only control very few people. Yet instead of being blind, I challenge, test, and researched your version of truth and found it sadly lacking any kind of merits.
Sorry but people really are that stupid You Know, religions and the occult have been here for centuries and these mind viruses are good at replicating themselves because they exploit a common weakness in human nature, namely our being intellectually lazy and also the gullibility factor is rampant in our species. Collectively, most of us have not evolved enough mentally to question our own infallibility and thus we often get sucked into believing the most ridiculous things around because we didn’t read the instruction manual.
If you did take the time to study anthropology, sociology, and psychology you would soon realize how silly your reasoning sounds. You are saying that key individuals in our culture are in effect demonized and manipulated by demons to create the cultural themes as a whole. This implies that demons are responsible for the great inventions that make our society function and evolve, and that political leaders are controlled by demons. You gave the example of how Prez Bush is being manipulated to kill people because he is already inclined to do that. Do you think the Watchtower boys would agree with you on that? Just wondering. It would also imply that the movie stars are being influenced by demons and the stars in the music industry, the makers of blue smurfs, and on and on. Hmm, do you think demons would actually be doing anything like this if they really existed?
The whole demon and devil story is just too implausible to be taken seriously at all when you start doing some thought experiments.
Why would a “angel” go bad in the first place? It would be a suicide trip wouldn’t it? After all these angels supposedly can see the big Guy upstairs and know that if they screwed up that they would get the axe. Jesus supposedly expelled many demons from one man….why did all these demons want to be inside that poor slob? Was he the Roman emperor? It either shows me that God was a big fuck up and lots of his children were sick of their life to the point of wanting to kill themselves to try to win a contest they know they couldn’t win, or the whole thing is just a big bad fairy tale.
I choose the later explanation as I'm too big to believe in the trooth fairy anymore.
Skipper
You Know,
I did not have the pleasure of enjoying the spiritual waters of H2O when you were first creating false prophecy, so I can't comment on your account. Now, I do know that you like Harley's or did, and that you like Bob Dylan. Am I correct Mr. King?
Mindchild you wrote,
"I’m not so much fishing for Biblical answers as I am trying to understand why some people believe this story."
People like to believe stories. Recall the thread about oujia boards? It was split about 50/50. Demonized versus hokum
Do you believe in God/Bible? If so, then probably you are more willing to accept the events it says took place. If not, well...
There are not many examples in the bible of "demon power" but one I was always fascinated by was when Moses first went to Pharaoh. Moses made his petition then to show he had Gods backing threw his staff down and it became a snake. What did Pharaoh do? He was unimpressed. Why? Because his priests did the same thing! How?
What did those priests know that we dont? Would it be credible to argue that IF that story was true then there are still some "priests" today that could do similar?
Signs and portents/miracles are one of the more dicey things in the Bible. Not just on the 'evil' end. I often wonder about Jesus. Say he came to the earth today. Lets say you saw him cure someone of paralysis. Or more incredibly raised someone from the dead? In person. What would you do? Would you believe it? Would you think this man had "power" and become his follower? It seems almost incomprehensible. I think he'd be dead in a week. Such events are unsettling to the human mind.
And now with CNN, the Internet, camcorders and every kook, charlatan, and would be Svengali following him around would that add to his credibility or detract from it? It would be a circus.
As far as demons go. If I recall correctly it was in Daniel that he saw 10,000 X 10,000 angels before the throne (100 million). Revelation mentions that Satan took 1/3 with him. So if you accept the literal reading some where around 30+ million at least.
Now as to whether demons influence nations/people, again if you believe they exist why not? I would guess that not all angels who rebelled at the flood took on bodies to have sex. But those that did and then could not ever materlize bodies again would be seeking to exert sexual influence on people. How they would do that I dont know.
Anyone who says it's not possible is kidding themselves. Look at how effective advertising is. "Have a nice day" "Fly the Friendly Skies" "Got milk?" The money spent for Super Bowl commercials. Why?
It subtle, insidious, and result oriented. How much more so spirit "advertising"?
