The Control is simply amazing (page 6)

stillstuckcruz

Has she examined examined doctrinal flip-flops? That was what really got to me. the "superior Authorities" flip-flop is a very simple one to use since it's straight forward and is discussed in the Proclaimers Book. Of course, that "candid" description make no mention of a flip flop, but only refers to a single change. If she is unwilling to even look at the flipflops from our own literature, she's got a looooooong way to go

Black Sheep

This doesn't work either. Because when you point out willful deception or claims that are not backed up

No. What you did seldom works. That is why I didn't suggest it.

Only supply the question, and the relevent article, and if you have it, the book quoted in the article.

Remember at all times that she has to do the talking and she has to do the reading and she has to do the explaining.

Always ask a simple question.

Then ... if neccessary ..... show her the magazine or book and ask her to read it to you and explain it to you.

Your goal should be to keep her on topic and and point out ...... through questions ...... any faulty logic, double standards, hypocracy, bad behaviour, etc.. E.g. If she uses a double standard, try to recall a time when you heard her slag off a member of another church for doing the same thing and ask her a question on it, or if you know the WT did that, get her to read the article to you. You will find a lot of relevent material by searching the official Watchtower website for 'propaganda'.

Gently

outsmartthesystem

"Has she examined examined doctrinal flip-flops? That was what really got to me. the "superior Authorities" flip-flop is a very simple one to use since it's straight forward and is discussed in the Proclaimers Book. Of course, that "candid" description make no mention of a flip flop, but only refers to a single change. If she is unwilling to even look at the flipflops from our own literature, she's got a looooooong way to go"

Many months ago...I thought I could smack her upside the head with facts and she would love me so much more for waking her up. Ha! This was one of the issues I brought up. For each flip flop I brought up she would try to correct me and say it was a "revision due to increased light". When I showed her that it wasn't increased light at all but rather a return to an old extinguished light....she explained how much more encouraging such a return should be because it proves that the society is humble and willing to admit their mistakes without being stubborn. After all these are imperfect men that sometimes get God's direction wrong.

She is willing to look at old literature but truly believes it is a waste of time because it is no longer what is being taught. They've trained her to believe that old light is inconsequential.

outsmartthesystem

"Always ask a simple question.

Then ... if neccessary ..... show her the magazine or book and ask her to read it to you and explain it to you.

Your goal should be to keep her on topic and and point out ...... through questions ...... any faulty logic, double standards, hypocracy, bad behaviour, etc.. E.g. If she uses a double standard, try to recall a time when you heard her slag off a member of another church for doing the same thing and ask her a question on it, or if you know the WT did that, get her to read the article to you. You will find a lot of relevent material by searching the official Watchtower website for 'propaganda'."

I've been down so many different roads it isn't funny. I've also tried this approach.....begging with her to show me from the literature why she believes a certain way and to cross reference the belief, the literature and the bible. She got angry and basically said how DARE I be condescending and treat her like a child. She owes me NO explanation. I managed to get her calmed down and made her truly believe that I DO want her to try to explain to me why she is so sure she is right. But when she realizes that she can't she then reverts back to "I can't explain it.....this is why we need the elders here". The reasoning she uses (not surprisingly) is completely circular....and when she cannot explain....it always reverts back to "see? This is why we need the elders".

InterestedOne

it always reverts back to "see? This is why we need the elders"

This is what my JW acquaintance did to me. She short-circuited the ask-a-question-get-her-to-explain method. She said that if I'm so interested in seeking answers, there is plenty of info out there, I know where the KH is & can ask the elders, but that she is not the best person to ask - basically telling me to stop speaking with her about it.

Found Sheep

you can lead a horse to water but can't make it drink

ziddina

I'm going to repeat my above suggestion....

Mimic the BEHAVIOR PATTERN without the SUPERSTRUCURE - SPECIFICS....

The "behavior pattern" is denial of obvious facts.

Doesn't matter WHAT the facts are, or the subject under discussion.

That is the BASIC BEHAVIOR PATTERN.

A person can see this behavior pattern in numerous human behaviors on ANY number of subjects; a teen-aged girl who uses her cell phone while driving, while claiming that such behavior is somehow 'safe'; people who cheat on their taxes while claiming that they aren't 'hurting' anyone; people who run red lights while thinking that somehow THEY are magically immune to ever having an accident...

Then there's the 'superstructure'...

The specific beliefs of the Jehovah's Witnesses; the thought that one is somehow 'immortal' and impervious to the very real results of bad decisions - terribly common in young males; the belief that one is 'superior' to other people and therefore shouldn't have to obey the same laws or bear the same responsibilities as other citizens....

So, if you mimic the behavior pattern - as I suggested above - using a different 'superstructure' - refusing to see facts if you're lost; safe driving habts; safe handling of food; better gas mileage - then perhaps SHE will be able to see how ridiculous the UNDERLYING BEHAVIOR is...

Because the level of denial that she's in, prevents you from approaching the subject in any direct, honest manner.

Make it like 'chinese torture' - drip, drip, drip - and NEVER obvious. Just push her until she becomes a bit frustrated, then back off - until the NEXT round...

Hope this helps...

Zid

Billy the Ex-Bethelite

Children can be easily conditioned to believe that Santa is real. They see him at the mall and there are presents under the tree. It's easy for them to ignore any and all facts to the contrary. If they didn't believe in Santa, that would mean that there wouldn't be toys under the tree for them.

Similarly for the JWs. If they don't believe in 607, they won't have a future paradise with pet tigers. While JWs condemn the "pagan lies of Christmas", the GB trains them to love JW lies. JWs don't seem to care how many billions of innocent victims must die for them to get their fairytale paradise.

shamus100

The only difference between JW's and the walking corpses, Billy, is if asked by a child if Santa is real, you are never supposed to lie to them. The Watchtower (tm), however....

Black Sheep

She got angry and basically said how DARE I be condescending and treat her like a child.

How is it ok for her to trash your character for not believing something that she can't/won't explain/discuss etc.?

Is she prepared to shun her own children, or parents, and treat them if they are mentally diseased if they get thrown out of her church because they don't believe a doctrine she doesn't understand or won't defend to them?

BTW, don't expect an answer to questions like that. Mine hasn't answered either. But the questions were asked and it's her move.

I have got my Dubs to lie and try to deceive me and now use that to let them know, in no uncertain terms, that through their own dishonesty, they kicked their own high horse out from under themselves and if they want to claim it back, they are going to have to earn it ..... legitimately ... no nastyness or trickery allowed. They insist I be honest ..... I expect them to live up to their own professed standard.

The Control is simply amazing

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