The Control is simply amazing

by outsmartthesystem 63 Replies latest jw experiences

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  outsmartthesystem

  Ziddina - I truly appreciate your suggestion. And I do see how it may work over a given period of time. But I'd be lying if I told you I was excited about trying it out. Using the same approach on her to try to frustrate her in even the smallest, mundane things of life would....I am afraid.....put an even heavier burden on our already shaky relationship. If I used this approach, would I not incur more and more evenings/weekends of tension in lieu of peace? Even if I make a subtle point and then back away.....the frustration has set in and the mood has now changed. Then again.....that appears to be the whole point of the exercise, no? I guess it is a matter of whether or not I can take even more tension.......or whether or not I think she is at her breaking point.

  "Is she prepared to shun her own children, or parents, and treat them if they are mentally diseased if they get thrown out of her church because they don't believe a doctrine she doesn't understand or won't defend to them?"

  I already asked her that question. She said without hesitation, "yes, because only those that commit gross wrongs are DFd". I brought up to her specific examples of how that thinking is faulty. How people do get disfellowshipped even when they shouldn't. I even brought up a talk that the CO gave where he explained that a man had been wrongly DFd and stayed that way for over 10 years before the truth was found out and he was reinstated. I brought up to her my position. I am a man that loves his family. I do not live an immoral lifestyle. But through much research I've determined that the Witnesses are full of shit. What happens if her daughter determines the same thing 20 years from now and gets DFd for it? She isn't a bad person....she just simply happens to disagree with the mandates of the society. My wife could only say "I guess we'd just have to see how the situation presents itself". And then she followed that up with "besides....no one gets disfellowshipped for disagreeing with the society. You have to be an active apostate trying to recruit others in order for that to happen". That's what she has been told by her dad therefore that is what she believes.

  "I have got my Dubs to lie and try to deceive me and now use that to let them know, in no uncertain terms, that through their own dishonesty, they kicked their own high horse out from under themselves "

  Blacksheep, would you mind expounding on that?
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  Black Sheep

  "I have got my Dubs to lie and try to deceive me and now use that to let them know, in no uncertain terms, that through their own dishonesty, they kicked their own high horse out from under themselves "

  Blacksheep, would you mind expounding on that?

  JWs almost never debate a subject. They just have an array of tools for avoiding any problems. Most of these tools involve a degree of dishonesty.

  To get them to use these tricks, you have to control the subject. If they want to divert you, you have the right subject, so stick with it like a bulldog.

  Whenever they use dishonesty, point out an occasion when you have heard them bash another church, or church member, for using the same technique.

  The object of the game is to get them to understand that you know that they know that they were knowingly dishonest with you ... and that you find it offensive that they use tricks that they have personally trashed other religions for using. Make it personal. "I remember when you said, " .....!"". They have to pay a price for every dishonest tactic they try. Part of that price is knowing that their dishonesty and double standards causes you to see them as no better than the churches they spent your youth bashing.

  Only ever quote their own knowledge & experience & literature & literature that the WT quotes that you have hardcopy of, & books they have.

  Know what is on their official website so that you can refer to it. The last time we talked religion, I got my my dad arguing against WT doctrine as published on their official, publically available website. They both got a lecture on honesty, again, and were told told that I found it offensive that they would try to deceive their own son into thinking that the church doesn't condone behaviour that is clearly promoted on their official website for anyone on the entire planet with internet to read. Dad had really put his head in the noose by bashing members of another church for shunning their non-believing son ...... Unbelieveable
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  mauiboy

  If you want some insights into obedience to authority go to youtube and enter "Milgras Obedience to Autority experiment" and watch part 1,2 and 3. About 25 minutes total, but well worth your time. Then think about how the organization uses similar mental, social and emotional (instead of physical) Tactics to obtain the same --or even more drastic-- results.
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  ziddina

  "...But I'd be lying if I told you I was excited about trying it out. Using the same approach on her to try to frustrate her in even the smallest, mundane things of life would....I am afraid.....put an even heavier burden on our already shaky relationship. If I used this approach, would I not incur more and more evenings/weekends of tension in lieu of peace? Even if I make a subtle point and then back away.....the frustration has set in and the mood has now changed. ...."

  Yes, I agree...

  If you think that the behavior pattern would cause more trouble between you and your wife, then don't do it - YOURELF...

  However, in my experience, one sees frequent examples of such behaviors in everyday life...

  You could point out drivers on their cell phones to your wife - and also point out how they're lying to themselves, apparently, as to how dangerous a practice that actually is...

  EXTRA points for every mother with children in the car who's on a cell phone - her denial of reality endangers THEIR lives, too...

  Be like the Watchtower Corporation in that you point out the negative, negative, negative about PEOPLE...

  But in this case, you're pointing out people who LIE TO THEMSELVES... And how foolish/dangerous such behavior is...

  If your wife EVER has an upset stomach after eating at a restaurant (and you might encourage her to eat the spicier dishes, winky wink!), then use the "poor food storage" technique on her - again, pointing out that her 'suffering' is probably due to someone else LYING TO THEMSELVES about the 'safety' of their food-storage techniques...

  These suggestions are NOT 'cast in stone'...

  For a few weeks, keep your eyes open and begin spotting the many and varied ways in which humans delude themselves - Jehovah's Witnesses have no monopoly on such behavior, trust me...

  When you've spotted a few good examples, 'dip a toe' into the water, so to speak...

  Always keep it light, subtle, and brief. You want the irritation to be slightly sub-conscious; like a pebble in her shoe. Try to keep her from becoming consciously aware of what you're doing...

  You can do a few versions yourself, too - just for brief periods of time, and if she catches you at it, just act befuddled and pretend that you don't quite understand the question or that she must be imagining it - you'd NEVER do anything like THAT...

  The Watchtower Corporation uses ambiguity and confusion to control people - they just never actually ADMIT that they're using such techniques.

  Confusion and ambiguity can work for you too...

  Always keep your MAIN goal in mind - you want your wife to clearly see the behavior pattern of self-delusion - in OTHER people, and hopefully she'll be so judgmental as to condemn people who delude themselves...

  Eventually the message may soak through, that her behavior matches that of those she is condemning...

  Again, light, subtle, never overt...

  Best results to you...

  Zid