America bashing, love and pride.

by Norm 49 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Amazing

  Hi Kent:

  Amazing is talking about all the travels Americans do abroad. How many percent of Americans do own a passport? In Norway it's close to 100%, just to take one example.

  A small percentage of Americans own passports. We are only bordered by two nations, and out of reach of most others except by air travel. One can much more easily travel from Norway down to Denmark and into the rest of Europe. Perhaps too, Norway has a much higher population of wealthy people compared to America. We have over 280,000,000 and growing ... and the cost of travel is most difficult for most people.

  How news is presented is interesting. How many US citizens do know the Winter Olymics is in the US these days? I bet most doesn't even know about it. Why? It's of no interest for media, since the US doesn't win a lot - and as such uninteresting.

  I can't tell if you are teasing, but the Olympics are broadcast all over the USA on many channels ... and that is true whether is is here or elsewhere, like Australia last Summer. Our media preempts many shows for the Olympics ... including the NBC Dateline show we are all waiting for ... everything here gets bumped because of Olympic news. Our media shows all the winners regardless of who is winning.

  When I see the difference, even from the European Edition of CNN - and BBC - you just have to wonder. And watching US news-channels tells me the reason why people really don't know what's going on elsewhere. I have been contacted by people in universities, telling me their friend is trying to escape from the Watchtower, and they wonder if I can pop in and visit her. She was living in Schwarzwald - in the south of Germany! Quite a trip from Norway to visit someone :)

  Well, with 100% of Norwegians owning passports and able to travel so much comnpared to poorer Americans ... then it is a natural assumption that you might go down to Germany at some point in time.

  Unfortunately the pride and nationalism makes it difficult to discuss such matters. This because a lot of people normally starts screaming about "bashing". It's not - personally I really try to find out what's really going on - and why people are the way they are. I always thought it was strange when I was presented with a "world view" so totally upside down I simply couldn't believe it - but I'm starting to understand why.

  I don't see criticism of America as "Bashing" as do few if any Americans I know think of it that way. Some criticism of America is born of ignorance and bigotry just as many Americans are ignorant and bigoted, so are Europeans, Asians, Latin Americans, etc. I think this is true now matter where you live.

  I also do understan why all (except for a few) cults starts in the US. The people there seems to be used to manipulating from the day they are born....

  Its really called freedom of religion. There are as many cults styarted elsewhere and even more dangerous ones than what gets started here. American is not that unique in having cults.
• 

  puppylove

  I'm afraid I have to jump in here too. Kent, how do you know so much about Americans? Where did you come up with this:
  

  How news is presented is interesting. How many US citizens do know the Winter Olymics is in the US these days? I bet most doesn't even know about it. Why? It's of no interest for media, since the US doesn't win a lot - and as such uninteresting.

  I'm sorry, but you have just shown that people from Norway are as ignorant as those from the US. The olympic coverage is all over the place here (and I live in New York, about 2000 miles away from Utah). Are you getting all your info on Americans from TV?

  Also, you do realize that the US mainland is almost 3000 miles from coast to coast? When American's take their holidays there is a wide variety of places to go - without leaving the US. You could liken someone going from France to Spain to me going from California to Arizona. We don't have the luxury of visiting another country everytime we drive 400 miles. LOL

  We get 2 weeks average of vacation a year. Period. That's not a lot of time to travel. My husband and I have made it a priority to travel and have visited the UK, France, Canada and Mexico. We plan on go to Spain for our 10th wedding anniverary. Even from NY though, that's an 8 hour flight. How far is it for you? How much vacation do you get a year?

  I don't think that most Europeans get all the facts about Americans straight. It's easy to blame us for just about everything.

  edited because i can't spell worth a darn
• 

  fodeja

  As I said before,I know that keeping up with world affairs is not as important to Americans as keeping up with their bills.

  The problem is that ignorance is a prerequisite of manipulation.

  The US government declares countries all over the world "rogue states" or an "axis of evil", the US government spends obscene amounts of hard-earned tax dollars for the military, the US government sends American boys and girls to war.

  So, while you personally may not be interested in international affairs, your government certainly is. I don't know about you, but I like to have a good idea of what my government is doing with my money and my fellow citizens' lives, and eventually my own.

  Bush's idiotic "either for us or against us" and "axis of evil" yapping is already disintegrating the fragile unity of the world that had been achieved in the wake of last September. Problem is, if you're a gullible US mainstream media consumer (hey, most people everywhere are gullible - why else has religion been such a worldwide success!), you can hardly get an idea why -- it just seems that those stupid non-Americans are "bashing" America for being so good, just, and freedom-loving. Aw, fuck 'em, they're just jealous, huh?

  Damn, I've gotten off topic again, time to quit ;-)

  If you can't be proud of those things,then it's your loss.

  As stated before, we may simply have two different meanings of the word "pride" here. For me, pride is linked to something I have personally accomplished.

  f.
• 

  cellomould

  One thing about Americans is that they let themselves be manipulated... It was mentioned several times that we here in the US don't have time or money for travel.

  But look at this another way: If US citizens showed this was important to them, their employers would have to change their mentalities.

  How many times do you see managers taking month long vacations while the lackeys get only a week per year? Quite often.

  The bottom line is: Americans can stop accepting their being sold out by corporate interests; they have the power to release their own nuts from the vice.

  We all need money to survive. Big deal. Don't let your employers use your need of money take away your freedom, however. Change jobs.

  When it becomes unprofitable to treat employees like slaves and lackeys, corporations will change. In fact, they are changing. They are realizing that happy employees are more efficient.

  cellomould

  

  "In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ
• 

  larc

  Cello,

  I don't know where you have worked, but where I worked, vacation time was determined by seniority not rank. Most of the managers I knew were so over worked they were hard pressed to use all their vacation time.

  If you aren't under the influence of big business, what would you like to put in its place, big government, as in a dictatorship, or big religion, as in the Dark Ages. With all our problems, business, not government or religion has lead to the highest standard of living, ever.
• 

  Cowboy

  The fact that knowledge of world affairs has to take a back seat to making a living for most Americans has nothing to do with ignorance or manipulation.We are mostly a nation of working class people whose goal in life is usually to provide the best we can for our families.We are fortunate to have the freedom to choose our way of life.If you feel manipulated,you're always free to leave.

  Ignorance is rampant everywhere(obviously).

  Edited to thank Amazing for excellent posts,as always.

  Cowboy

  We ride and never worry about the fall
  I guess that's just the cowboy in us all
• 

  cellomould

  Larc,

  Isn't it curious though that GOP politicians (ie George W) prey on American's fears of 'big' government?

  And it makes no logical sense. You have the to-be president trying to erode your confidence in the government!... why?

  This is manipulation.

  Big business is worse than 'big' government, imo. Just look at insurance agencies, for example. They try to defy statistics by denying as many as possible of the most needy, big takers people. Even if the odds are 1/100,000 of a person having a certain illness. And companies are on their side. But when it comes to downsizing, companies don't think to reduce executive salaries. Their strategy in this case is to eliminate as many of the small salaries as possible.

  Do you catch the discrepancy there?

  And what about TV commercials? Have you ever spent an evening in front of the TV and not heard the word 'trust'? You are given no logical reasons to trust, but key emotional words are used to get you to trust. (i.e. 'natural' 'safe' 'healthy')

  Just the presence of these words is enough to sway people. This too is manipulation.

  Yeah, we don't want Stalin in power, but we have as much or more to fear from a government that sells out to corporate interests.

  By the way, have you seen the latest Newsweek? With the picture of protestors with a Cheney 'Got Oil' caricature? Hilarious!

  cellomould

  

  "In other words, your God is the warden of a prison where the only prisoner is your God." Jose Saramago, The Gospel According to Jesus Christ
• 

  plmkrzy

  Cowboy

  [If you feel manipulated,you're always free to leave.
  Ignorance is rampant everywhere(obviously).]

  I don't recal anyone saying they personally felt manipulated but I for sure didn't say it. I did how ever say this country was founded on manipulation and it is. For anyone who doesn't like my opnion there free to leave also. Oh wait may I should just be disfellowshiped for seeing things realisticlly?
  plm

  "The fellow that agrees with everything you say is either a fool or he is getting ready to skin you."
  - Kin Hubbard
• 

  DanielHaase

  Cello, good post. Either which way, when we get a pres too far one way or another, we're screwed. It's a bit hard to find any sort of balance in this country, though. The current situation with corporate domination and the globalization plague seem to be an evolving form of fascism (the corporations are outrunning our government!). I think even Thomas Jefferson is rolling over in his grave right now.

  "Brother, you better get down on your knees and pay...a thousand more fools are being born every f***ing day" -Bad Religion
• 

  Seeker

  Kent,

  I reiterate what puppylove said: You have either made an incorrect assumption or have been given bad information. The U.S. is inundated with Olympic news, and is also doing very well in the games. I'm surprised you would think the U.S. wouldn't care. After all, what better forum is there to sell products? Naturally the U.S. gets involved, because the corporations push it heavily.