The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet

by The Quiet One 179 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • jwfacts
    jwfacts

    JWFACTS - Please consider this.. Moses was a prophet. He represented Jehovah, but he made mistakes. Even so, when Korah and the people with him decided that Moses had no right to lead them, seeing as he was an imperfect man whose leadership could not have been without times when he made mistakes, (if Moses was perfect as a spirit directed ruler, or it was undeniable that he was appointed by God, why would hundreds of people be dumb enough to fight with God?) he seemed to be no better than anyone else.

    You are mixing up two unrelated concepts. Moses was not perfect, but he was inspired to present accuarate prophecy and doctrine. How many doctrinal blunders did Moses add to the Bible, despite being imperfect.

    So where is the proof that the GB represent Jehovah? Miracles or signs of any sort- No. Accurate doctrine - no, it is a mess of changes, contradictions and failed predictions. Jehovah provided many signs that Moses was being used by him, but not a single sign that the GB are used by him. For that reason, the GB have no reason to claim to be any better than any other religious leader. If you use the very lenient yardstick you use to test the GB against any other religion, you will find many that are equally qualified to claim to be God's organisation.

  • tenyearsafter
    tenyearsafter

    TQO...the difference between Moses and the WTS is that Moses NEVER spoke on God's behalf something that didn't happen or come to be. He may have made human mistakes, but he never falsely prophesied. If you want to liken the WTS to Moses, then you have completely missed the mark in discerning truth from falsehood.

    edit: JWF...we must have posted at the same time!

  • curiouscynic
    curiouscynic

    I've been out for over 10 years, so I'm very new to the overlapping generations teaching. But just a couple of brief points I didn't notice anyone else make.

    dictionary.com offers FIVE possible definitions of the word "generation" as follows:

    gen·er·a·tion

    noun 1. theentire body of individuals born and living at about the sametime: the postwar generation. 2. thetermofyears, roughly 30 among human beings, accepted as theaverage period between the birth of parents and the birth oftheiroffspring. 3. a group of individuals, most of whom are the same approximate age, havingsimilar ideas, problems, attitudes, etc. Compare Beat Generation , Lost Generation . 4. a group of individuals belongingtoa specific category at the same time: Chaplin belonged to the generation of silent-screen stars. 5. a single step in natural descent , as of human beings, animals, or plants.

    The examples offer clues to the appropriate interpretation of each definition, the "postwar generation" the "Beat Generation" or the "generation of silent-screen stars." No where is an interpretation that permits such a broad understanding of the word as is required by the WT's assertion.

    Again... from dictionary.com, we have THREE possible definitions of "contemporary" as follows:

    con·tem·po·rar·y

    1. existing, occurring, or living at the same time; belonging to the same time: Newton's discovery of the calculus was contemporary with that of Leibniz. 2. of aboutthe same age or date: a Georgian table with a contemporarywigstand. 3. of the presenttime; modern: a lecture on the contemporary novel.

    The WT and TQO argue that the first definition here fits their need. But the example offered by Dictionary.com is rather telling. Newton was born in 1643 and Leibniz in 1646, they are not only contemporaries but of the same generation by most every definition. Part 2 of the example is of the discovery of infinitesimal calculus. Leibniz claims to have made his breakthrough Nov 11, 1675; and Newton somewhere between 1666 and 1669, dependant upon who you ask.

    No part of this example, or any of the available definitions for either word allow for the singular "generation" or "contemporary" to encompass multiple CENTURIES!

    To interpret them as the WT and Mr. Quiet One suggest requires a suspension of reason and an incredibly imaginative definition of "generation".

  • jonathan dough
    jonathan dough

    More JW false prophecy than you can shake a stick at, right here:

    http://www.144000.110mb.com/directory/false_prophets_prophecies_jehovahs_witnesses.html

    blueletterbible.org
    http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/cults/exposejw/chap1.cfm jwfacts.com
    http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/1800s.php
    Failed predictions

    jwfacts.com
    http://www.jwfacts.com/watchtower/revelation-daniel-prophetic-interpretation.php

    blueletterbible.org
    http://www.blueletterbible.org/study/cults/exposejw/chap1.cfm

    towerwatch.com
    http://www.towerwatch.com/Witnesses/Prophecies/failed_prophecies.htm

    witnessinc.com
    http://www.witnessinc.com/false.html
    looks good

    firstandlast.org.uk
    http://www.firstandlast.org.uk/prophecy1.html

    freeminds.org
    http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/prophecy/when-prophecies-fail.html

    watchman.org
    http://www.watchman.org/jw/payattentiondaniel.htm

    freeminds.org
    http://www.freeminds.org/doctrine/prophecy/comprehensive-list-of-false-dates-set-by-the-watchtower.html

    jehovah.net.au
    http://jehovah.net.au/prophecy.html

    mmoutreachinc.com
    http://www.mmoutreachinc.com/jehovahs_witnesses/prophecy/christreturn1874.html

    mmoutreachinc.com
    http://www.mmoutreachinc.com/jehovahs_witnesses/wtprophecies.html

    spotlightministries.org.uk
    http://www.spotlightministries.org.uk/falseprophet.htm

    christiandefense.org
    http://www.christiandefense.org/WT_falseProphet.htm

    jehovahs-witness.net
    http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/203748/1/WT-article-on-never-have-we-said-Jehovah-has-said

    seanet.com
    http://www.seanet.com/~raines/palliative.html
    arminiantheology.com
    http://arminiantheology.com/jehovah-witnesses-false-prophecies.html

    carm.org
    http://carm.org/jehovahs-witnesses-and-their-many-false-prophecies

    watchthetower.net
    http://www.watchthetower.net/dates.html

    en.wikipedia.org
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eschatology_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses

    christadelphia.org/
    http://www.christadelphia.org/apoca.htm

    worldlingo.com
    http://www.worldlingo.com/ma/enwiki/en/Eschatology_of_Jehovah%27s_Witnesses/1

    letusreason.org
    http://www.letusreason.org/JW33.htm

  • DesirousOfChange
    DesirousOfChange

    THANK YOU! LeavingWT......that is the quote I remember.

    DOC

  • Black Sheep
    Black Sheep
    I can't with my browser, so shoot me. To prove that I was not a troll, I will not post again. All the best in the future.

    So, let me get this right.....

    Because you don't know how to use a different browser and some of the posters think you are a troll (a very common mistake) ..... you are going to leave the people you came here to save to get killed by your god.

    Did I get it right?

    Chris

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    The Quiet One,

    The Watchtower is NOT a false prophet

    I have read most of the thread. I don't know that I understand it totally.

    The way I think of it is like this.

    When I stopped attending the kingdom hall one of the examples that is pointed out is of Moses and Korah. With Moses and David it was very evident that they were used by God.

    Moses went to Pharaoh and the ten plagues followed the hebrews were lead through the parting of the sea and the egyptian armies were destroyed.

    David slew Goliath and it was said of David "Saul has struck down his thousands and David his tens of thousands." (1Sa 18:5-7) and Jehovah commanded Samuel to annoint David.

    As a Witness I understood that we were the only ones doing the preaching work. This Good News was being preached in all the earth. This identified JW as being God's chosen ones. We had the truth from God's Word. The preaching was going on despite the Devil's efforts to hamper it.

    I am no longer considered a Witness as I do not join in making known the message of JW.

    If we go right back to Pastor Russell and the beginning of the Watchtower Pastor Russell said this.

    "So here the gospel church has been God's recognized channel of truth, or mouthpiece, but are such, we believe, no longer. Truth will come through other channels.

    Since 1878 (and never before that) we have felt at liberty to call God's children out of the nominal churches to a position of freedom and liberty"

    Watchtower May 1881.

    I understand that Pastor Russell believed that the time of the end began in 1799 and the Lord's second presence dated from 1874 saying things like this.

    "Nor should any doubt the fact that the forty years of "harvest" began in the fall of 1874"

    Divine Plan of the Ages. Pg 42.

    JW no longer believe these things to be true. So I ask myself should people have listened to the Watchtower and left the "nominal churches"?

    It sounds to me that the message was false. It also sounds that at the time if I had lived then I would have been asked to make a choice between the churches and the Watchtower teachings. A little like the situation between Moses and Korah.

    We now understand from JW that this message of the 1874 and the forty years of harvest was wrong.

    However in 1959 the question was posed to my parents concerning what Pastor Russell had taught about 1874 ect.

    "Why would anyone who claimed to serve God want to fight against a message to the effect that the time had come for the Messiah to present himself a second time and breing to faithful mankind the blessings that he had promised when he was here before?"

    Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose Pg 37.

    The teaching of the 1975 can also I believe be traced back to the Divine Plan of the Ages.

    So at the present time I have stopped joining in with the preaching of good news of the establishment of God's Kingdom in 1914 due to the fact that in my opinion I do not have sufficient facts to support it. However I have nothing against the Witnesses and still believe in Jesus Christ.

  • The Quiet One
    The Quiet One

    BLACK SHEEP - I'll obviously be mocked now for going back on saying I wouldn't post again, but I don't care really, your assumptions need to be answered.. Firstly, not that it's really any of your business, the mobile I'm forced to use (can't use the computer as I'm a born-in living with jw family) is old (can't afford a better one) and this is the best browser available to me, others are either mind-numbingly slow or have various errors/don't show pages or don't let me post here, which some would clearly prefer.. Shall I give you the make/model of my phone and browser specs, or will what I've said suffice?(!) As for 'saving' any of you, where did I suggest that? Where did I even say that the WT definitely had the truth, that I thought you were going to die, or that I believe that Jehovah definitely exists or was even my God, implying that I worship him?.. I refer to the Bible passages in a literal way because what is written may have happened for all I know.. How can I state that it did not? So I have presented my points from a Bible-believing standpoint, as that is the only one that a believing jw will listen to/respond from, whereas many of you here on jwn seem to be content merely to 'preach to the converted', yourselves, and echo each others ideas, perhaps mainly for the benefit of lurkers. The lurkers who get only one side of the story in many cases.. but many of you are understandably bitter or angry because of what people have put you through.. Whether the Bible can be trusted or not is a separate topic entirely. I believe, though, that the WT COULD be right, and I have simply tried to present the best arguments I can come up with to defend the possibility that they are. If nobody wants to agree with my point that the WT do not technically fit the Bible-defined role of false prophet, that the WT is merely a prophet that doesn't predict the future in Gods name, thus they cannot be dismissed as not being used by God as quickly and easily as some may like to..fine. If they can't be absolutely proven to be wrong, from the Bible, as some here try to show.. Then the issue of being a jw/not may all simply come down to believing/not believing that the Bible as a whole is inspired.. and from there whether WT core doctrines, in understanding the whole Bible as inspired and essentially trustworthy, seem to make the most sense or not. And if you can't be totally sure that the WT is not in any way directed/used by God, fighting against it may not leave us in a good position with Him.. Please read Acts 5:38,39 regarding this.. Finally, it's been nice to air my views in a forum where some have respectfully told me that I'm talking s***, I'm not wanted here, that I'm a troll and so forth.. Even if I walked into my Hall today and declared that I now believed in the Trinity I would at least be reasoned with respectfully and shown evidence, whether I choose to believe it or not, rather than spoken to in that way. Anyway, thanks to those such as jwfacts and Aguest for showing that people can at least disagree in a polite and reasonable way. I'm leaving now, and I won't be reading whatever anyone posts here after this, so as not to get annoyed at assumptions like Black Sheep seemed to be making and be dragged back into a discussion where I have nothing else to add..

  • cedars
    cedars

    Now that The Quiet One has bravely run away, what can we learn from this encounter?

    The Quiet One said the following:

    Anyway, thanks to those such as jwfacts and Aguest for showing that people can at least disagree in a polite and reasonable way.

    Could it be that we can learn from those mentioned by the Quiet One in how to reason with apologists in the future?

    Cedars

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    Hell there Curiouscynic

    I'd like to address Generation ( noun )

    1. The entire body of individuals born and living at about the same time ; post war group

    That's still a big fail for the WTS

    let's see what the WTS say about people alive and born at the start of WWI ( 1914 )

    " The generation that was alive at the beginning of fulfillment of the sign in 1914 is now well along in years. The time remaining must be very short."_______ reasoning book page 239

    Those alive in 1914 are already 100+, those born during that time are near bout a hundred

    Let's see what the WTS say about the life span of an individual

    " But humans live just 70 or 80 years and then die."__________ reasoning book page 14

    Those born during WWI are way past 80, the clock has run out for the WTS

    I'm so glad you brought that out Curiouscynic :))

    I tried to break it down as simple as possible for for the quiet one

Share this

Google+
Pinterest
Reddit