by AGuest 212 Replies latest jw friends
Intelligence is just a word, it doesn't define or quantify a person. Education is required for intelligence, but education is an incredibly intricate concept. Band I would love to hear your personal view of the concept. What is the best way to obtain an education and why?
-Sab
Intelligence and education are not the same. In the past, you were stuck in the class into which you were born. A few people received scholarships but they were brilliant and scouts located them. IQ does not impress me as much as diligence and real world accomplishment. In my example, education exposed me to a completely different lifestyle. My parents believed in deference as good JWs. Deference was viewed as sinful when I was in college. I was exposed to much information but more importantly, I was taught to not accept what I was reading. Critical thinking skills endure the knowledge fades with the passing years.
One important function of education is that most graduate have a common ground of knowledge. I could not do it when I first graduated but now I can make connections between different subject areas. I am ever aware of how little I can ever know. Rather than rely on a professor, I know how to ask a librarian or practicioner for research help. When I was in high school in a ghetto school, I always received As for the amazing feat of knowing the characters' names and having a rough idea of the story line. My first English class was terrifying. You were expected to know every objective detail in the book. Next, you were supposed to analyze it using your own mind. It was jolting.
I view the world in a radically different manner. Friends of mine who don't have high IQs hold down decent jobs and can be inspiring. Education is only a tool, not an end. I tend to overemphasize here b/c my father was ready to pull me out of high school. I was headed for a foster home to finish school. Character is most important to me. How people treat those who are different or have different viewpoints. Civility is crucial to me.
A good heart must be worth more than a brilliant amoral person. I see a place for personal revelation. My feeling is if personal revelation is authentic, the character of the person should be superb. I fall short. Common decency is more important than education. IMO.
A good heart must be worth more than a brilliant amoral person.
I wouldn't have put 'amoral' in there, but other than that I agree with that statement 100%.
I see a place for personal revelation. My feeling is if personal revelation is authentic, the character of the person should be superb. I fall short.
We all fall short.
It isn't about how good or bad we are. It can't be, because we all fall short. It is about having faith, even if just enough that you can ask for more... then to knock and keep knocking and KNOW that the door will be opened to you.
Peace,
Tammy
Ok so a Christian mother would be better off from persecution by Jews because she carried a little Christian inside her?
The Supporting scripture for this notion being Ex 21:22-25?
Keeping in mind Ex 21:12..( 12 “Anyone who strikes a person with a fatal blow is to be put to death.) NIV
It might be the Jews didnt hold themselves to these Laws in exodus or thought it didnt apply to christians.
Never the less it was an entertaining hypothesis.
Twisty
Ok so a Christian mother would be better off from persecution by Jews because she carried a little Christian inside her?
Actually, I think the "thing", dear Twisty (peace to you!), was that a christian mother would be better off... because as a former JEW/Israelite... she was carrying a little JEW/Israelite inside her. "Jew" wasn't something restricted to the religion - much MORE so, it was BLOOD. Sure, the mother might be considered an "apostate," but she was still carrying a Jew/Israelite inside her (because the lineage was through the mother).
And the Law was clear as to pregnant Israelite/Jewish women... mothers.
I'm not saying that it kept them ALL safe, that all of those who WOULD kill/deliver up a pregnant woman bought into the Law's provision. Not at all. I am sure some were NOT kept safe by it (due to "rogue" Jews who didn't care about the Law). But the PEOPLE, by and large, DID care about the Law - it was controlling in their lives. Tell me, how to you harm/kill a pregant woman... who hasn't committed adultery, etc.,... and get past the LAW? Too many would feel that they couldn't. And the priests/scribes/Pharisees/others... who had USED to Law to control the people all these years... couldn't now say, "Oh, wait, you don't have to worry about THAT Law." That would have caused the people to question everything ELSE they had been told they HAD to worry about.
Paul... who formerly delivered up women (and men) to BE killed... KNEW, then... what the PEOPLE wouldn't stand for. And without the support of the PEOPLE, the priests, et al., had NO power. He knew the "limits", then... and told the early congregation(s) about it. Did he go into bump-by-bump detail ("Look, you girls try to stay preggers 'cause the priests, et al., won't touch you then because of the Law... and I know 'cause I was one of them once")? Of course, not. He didn't NEED to. They knew who he was and what he once was. He had been notorious! But he did pretty much tell them that childbirth would keep them safe.
Reading it TODAY, we're reading something that applies to something close to 2,000 years ago... and trying to understand it as we "see" it TODAY. Does that work, though, really? I don't think so. Indeed, that is one of the reasons FOR the great confusion over who did/said/wrote what... why... and what was really meant: we're a couple millenium down the road. We don't even SPEAK in the same way.
My Lord, however, does speak as they did. And he was physically present during the time right before... and with the Apostles and disciples in spirit after... and has been with his Body in the same way ever since. So, I have to put MY faith in what HE tells me was going on... and was meant. I had no idea... and don't know anyone who is pregnant. I wasn't even THINKING of pregnant women, the Law, OR Paul. But I received this truth... and shared it. That's it, that's all.
Again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
Actually, I think the "thing", dear Twisty (peace to you!), was that a christian mother would be better off... because as a former JEW/Israelite ... she was carrying a little JEW/Israelite inside her. "Jew" wasn't something restricted to the religion - much MORE so, it was BLOOD. Sure, the mother might be considered an "apostate," but she was still carrying a Jew/Israelite inside her (because the lineage was through the mother ).
So in that case any child born of a Christian mother would be a Jew and free from persecution until he actively proved he was a Christian(as his parents would expect) after that he would be fair game?
Tell me, how to you harm/kill a pregant woman... who hasn't committed adultery, etc.,... and get past the LAW?
How do you kill anybody and get past the law?
If pregnant women were afforded any form of protection/mercy it was not from the law but rather a deeper inherent quality like justice and protection of babies.
Its not viable that Paul would think that the people wouldnt hesitate to bypass the law at verse 12 but would halt at verse 22.
Twisty
So in that case any child born of a Christian mother would be a Jew and free from persecution until he actively proved he was a Christian (as his parents would expect) after that he would be fair game?
You're going way past the term of pregnancy, dear one (again, peace to you!). And you're also missing the point. I'm not sure why: if you're doing that on purpose, or if you truly do not get it.
How do you kill anybody and get past the law?
Ummmm... killing was not prohibited under the Law. To the contrary, it was sometimes sanctioned (i.e., the avenger of blood); however, Israel was always supposed to SURPASS the Law... with love. Which would cause them to FORGIVE any transgressions, even sue for peace with God on behalf of a transgressor...
If pregnant women were afforded any form of protection/mercy it was not from the law but rather a deeper inherent quality like justice and protection of babies.
Okay. Sure. Ummmm... wasn't the Law supposed to be about "justice"? And where did you get the protection of babies was occurring? Herod killed how many looking for my Lord? Roman actually left theirs out to die in the elements. Babies weren't particularly "special" in and of themselves, dear one.
Its not viable that Paul would think that the people wouldnt hesitate to bypass the law at verse 12 but would halt at verse 22.
Actually, verse 12 serves my point: killing wasn't something Jews could easily do... because of the LAW. THIS law (verse 12). Which is why my Lord was delivered up to ROME to be killed... versus the priests, scribes, et al., doing it themselves. And, as I shared, christians were "delivered up" to the Romans BY the Jews ("brother will deliver up brother"). But some Jews literally killed; of course, they did.
But let's take a look at that Law... and how some got around it. First, did not the fomenter of the law... Moses... strike a man so that he actually died? My recollection is that he did indeed. Why wasn't he held accountable? Because you've left out the next couple verses:
"But where one does not lie in wait..."Exodus 21:13
and...
"... in case a man becomes heated against his fellow to the point of killing him with craftiness..."Exodus 21:14
These verses are clarification of one of the "Ten" commandments, which many Bible versions misstated, so that many PEOPLE misstate... and misunderstand... the SUMMATION that:
"Thou shall not... murder." Exodus 20:13
Which is NOT the same as "Thou shall not kill." Because MURDER includes an underlying insidiousness and deceit, sans passion. Thus, it is evil. Whereas killing can be the result of a lot of things, including accident.
But the Law was not a FULL restriction, of course not. For example, Exodus 20:16 (which some Bibles erroneously translate as "You must not lie")states:
"You must not bear false witness against your brother/fellowman."
Yet, how did the priests, et al., eventually get the Sanhedrin to convict my Lord? By the FALSE testimony of two men they hired to so testify. Their reasoning? THEY were bearing false witness against Christ; the men were.
Again, dear one, I only shared what I was given on this matter. You don't have to take my word for it. Believe what you will... or don't what you won't. Or... ask. The latter is just as easy as the former.
Again, I bid you peace!
A slave of Christ,
SA
The Encyclopedia Judaica is prob. expensive online but my local library carries a full set of volumes. One can read topics and actually know something about Judaism at differing periods rather than guessing. Jews don't exist for the sake and approbation of Christians. They are self defining. Christians think Jesus is fulfillment of prophecy. Jews think quite the contrary view. There is so much arrogant and antisemitic takes on Judaism on this forum. It is nice to know the Christian view, the Jewish view, and a neutral view.
Paul is not here to explain to us. Whatever we perceive he taught, he left Judaism. I suggest rabbis and traditional source of Jewish knowledge, such as the Encyclopedia Judaica, are much better reference sources as to what Jews believed. The Internet provides a Christian interpretation of Psalm 23 and a Jewish one. They are not remotely similar.
Also, Judaism has evolved over time. What is current Jewish belief or practice may not have been the practice in the 1st century CE.
Again, dear one, I only shared what I was given on this matter. You don't have to take my word for it.
Actually, we do since your Lord doesn't talk to the rest of us. If only he had some way to prove that he has inside knowledge..
WAIT! He DOES!
Since he felt it proper, via you, to call me an alcoholic and liar, I provided him with the means to prove himself and you in a manner than can ensure that multiple witnesses on this forum can tell if he is telling, via you, the truth or not. If he can step up to that test and prove that he has the ability to peer into secret places and know secret things, then that would go a long way towards us not having to take your word for it.
Will he prove himself, answer this challenge as he has so many others or just shrink back, yet again?
Were you the one threatened with death by JAH or whatever?
