Active JW understands flaws in WTS doctrine but believes in the Bible

by flamegrilled 238 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    how do I identify a form of worship that meets all the criterea:

    I only know of one Way, dear flame (peace to you!)... and that is Christ (John 14:6). The early disciples didn't find one another - Christ found THEM... and brought THEM together. HE sent them to whomever he chose, sent those he chose to them... and chose them all. They did not send themselves, find themselves, or choose themselves... or each other. He did say that others would KNOW who belonged to him (love among them... and holy spirit, which would "evidence" their choosing)... and who didn't (their "fruits").

    Problem is... people... need people. Most, more than they need God. At least, they think they do. This is because people "validate" themselves in two very tangible ways... (1) based on what others believe/say/think about them, and (2) agreement with/by/from others (people like to hang out with those who think/believe as they do - it is a confirmation that they are on the "right" path: "All THOSE people believe it, so it MUST be true"). Unfortunately, the fact that many, even most, believe/think/agree as to something is not necessarily indicative of whether those who do are right. On many, many occasions, some even historically recorded, "people" were wrong. Very wrong.

    The Most Holy One of Israel, however, "validates" people through His Son, by means of holy spirit. And those who go this route are primarily only concerned with what THAT One says/thinks. As you can guess... and history shows... this route (and the "gate" to it) is very "narrow" and walked by very few (in comparison to populations during their lifetime). And such ones often... very often... walk it alone, sometimes in the face of great opposition, sometimes even in the face of death.

    The first requires walking by sight; folks need to SEE others who "believe" as they do. And the more "others" they SEE... the more they feel validated and their beliefs confirmed. The second, however, requires walking by faith - there is nothing to "see"... and no one to validate... other than Christ [the Copper Serpent]. Looking at, so as to "see", anything ELSE can actually cause one to "trip," "stumble," and even "fall" in their "walk." Seeing only Christ, though, and one's path can actually get brighter... and brighter. But this requires faith. Why? Because Christ is a spirit and thus not readily visible to the physical eye. Notice, I said readily.

    Since most people walk by SIGHT versus by FAITH... something known by the Adversary... all manner of false "lights" have been established. Like a loud, boisterous woman, they "call" to mankind, particularly the "children of light". Unfortunately, like the "bug lights" they are, they are death-dealing. NOT because they kill the body - some do, some don't, But it isn't the physical body that the Adversary is after - it is the SPIRIT man that one is. He goal is NOT to kill your spirit... but to have YOU give up it willingly.

    The voice of the TRUE Light, however, the Lamb of God, is not loud OR boisterous; it is low and quiet. Although animals can hear it, a human has to really pay attention. Because he is not an "in your face" kind of person (contrary to what religion teaches... and displays). Following that One, however, cannot be done in conjunction with others. While it is a wonderful thing to HAVE others who share the same hope and belief, it cannot be a REQUIREMENT. Because in that case, such one is subject to divided loyalty... and thus, following after others... and other "lights."

    And that's were religion... and particularly cults... come in: they KNOW man's "need" for others, particularly his family. The Adversary knows this... that a man WILL have "greater love"... for father, mother, sister, brother, wife, husband, and child... and so uses this truth to divide even where love for Christ has not.

    If one searches for God by going through the Door HE set up, though, one WILL be found. By that Door. But if one has greater love for others... one is going to have a very hard time. That is why my Lord said he came to put a sword, not peace. Because following the Lamb wherever HE goes... sometimes means "leaving father, mother, etc." But that is following the LAMB... not following the WTBTS, "Society", GB, Pope, Cardinal, priest, preacher, reverend, pastor, etc. Those who belong to God have only ONE Leader, ONE Shepherd, ONE Teacher. All of the others are strangers, indeed thieves and plunderers.

    One that does follow that Lamb, however, puts themselves in line to SAVE not only himself... but his loved ones... through God's mercy. As Noah, Abraham, Rahab, and many others did. Perhaps not now, but certainly in the future. Everything that one "loses" in THIS life, however, they will receive BACK... double, tenfold, even a hundredfold... in the next.

    There is no "where" to go, dear one. There is only a WHO to go away to: the Holy One of Israel and Holy Spirit, JAHESHUA, who is the Chosen One of JAH (MischaJah), the MOST Holy One of Israel.

    I hope this helps... and, again, peace to you!

    A slave of Christ,

    SA

  • flamegrilled
    flamegrilled

    Thanks for all the replies thus far. Sorry for not titling the post - that was silly. Is there a way to title it in arrears?

    Some good points have been made. Sab's was inciteful.

    N.Drew - Yes I have long perceived a level of intellectual dishonesty. I am perfectly aware it exists and have struggled to figure out the moral possibilities of its existence. Don't misunderstand me - I'm not trying to find an excuse for it from a moral perspective - merely whether it can or cannot be reconciled from a theocratic/Divine perspective.

    I think if someone could have conclusively answered all 3 questions at any point in the past few years I would be somewhere else by now. I know some answers can be given in isolation, but unless someone can explain why one of these points is unimportant from a christian perspective then I'm still working on it.

    When I read Franz's book I was very persuaded that he was genuinely Christian rather than apostate. However the least persuasive portion to me was the latter section that did not deal fully with what appears to be a congregational arrangement in the NT.

    N.Drew ... are we not gathered here on the forum? ... I have found this forum to be interesting and it confirms/coincides with many of my doubts, but as far as "encouraging one another" ... well ... to be honest not at all. The meetings on the other hand, despite the flaws, do often provide some encouragement (mostly before and after rather than during).

    CB - I don't need a perfect church either. But if I adjust my current situation I need to at least feel that I am not trading in for something inferior as far as christian values and practices are concerned.

    Elderelite - I feel I am fairly free of any particular mindset ... but who really is?

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    The encouragement that I experienced at the meetings (the little there was) is given in response to the order of the Watchtower. I was married to an unbeliever and some of the time unemployed but not pioneering. So imagine that I was viewed as a lesser one. The only invites I got in my 20 years was for group gatherings. I thought it was odd and went to prayer about it and my Lord made known to me that if there was a lack, then what was I waiting for? So I did a lot of hospitality, more than I ever got. Not hospitality toward the elite, but toward those that were like me.

    After I had a revelation about the truth about the truth (that is what they call it here) I tried to communicate to other friends "in the truth" but what I got back was rhetoric and a backing off from me.

    So then before I found this place there were only two people in my life that gave me a patient ear. My sister and my daughter, but they were being nice and did not really appreciate "sacred" things.

    But here there are many people who want to know about spiritual things. I do not get much feedback (almost none, actually) but I really enjoy the interchange of ideas here. To me it is the most encouragement I ever got in any way!

  • wasblind
    wasblind

    Hello and welcome flamegrilled

    Lookin' forward to readin' more of your post :)

  • AGuest
    AGuest
    I do not get much feedback (almost none, actually)

    The greatest of love and peace to you, dear N.Drew... and consider yourself "blessed", dear one - LOLOLOLOL! "Feedback" on this site can be brutal, girl - LOLOLOLOL! I often get lots of feedback... whether I want it or not. Particularly when I don't want it - . There are times, though, when there is none and in such cases I think one of two things: either, "Whew! and praise JAH!".... or perhaps there wasn't anything for others TO comment on. Sometimes the truth just stands on its own.

    Please don't be discouraged, if you are (I don't think you are, but just in case). Your participation is valuable, as valuable as ANYONE else's here. You will see that once you've been here a bit. In the meantime, keep on keeping on... and gracing us with your dear "wibble" (which, unfortunately, I don't "speak" very well, sorry). I, though, will be here less and less in a few more days... and so the board will need as much of YOUR "light" as you're willing to share. So, let it shine, dear one... even if others don't see it, get it... or agree with it.

    Again, peace to you!

    YOUR servant and a slave of Christ,

    SA

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    I am not discouraged. Thank you for the "feedback" Haha!! I did get tons of negative feedback. I think I would have it no other way. And when I get ignored I think it is funny. It's funny because believe it or not I think in a logical progression and forum doesn't, so even though I sound confusing sometimes I believe I am in the image of forum.

    The smartest and most intelligent people are gathered here I think. Wasn't it NewChapter that noticed my posts are missing something? (Sometimes I don't put in the obvious). And sometimes I do omit certain things on purpose because they are not for everyone. It is a way of talking I learned in the Borg. I did not want to stumble anyone.

    I don't blame anyone for misinterpreting me. We all do it.

    I might get back on topic and address #2

    Can the WBTS preach without owning the exclusive rights to truth? And without going beyond the things written?

    It's possible so it's worse that they don't.

    It is written that it would be better to be thrown into the sea to drown than to stumble a least one who put faith in the Lord.

    "It would be better for him if a millstone were hung around his neck and he were thrown into the sea, than that he would cause one of these little ones to stumble."

    So no matter that the preaching is being done if at the same time that same preaching is stumbling someone (who belongs to Christ).

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    You are a philosopher, N Drew, and that is going to ruffle feathers of the types who need concrete answers to continue walking through their life.

    -Sab

  • N.drew
    N.drew

    Thanks Sabastious.

    I forgot to finish the last sentence and edit is broken tonight.

    I meant to say if the way the preaching is being done stumbles any "little one" then it is better that the preaching isn't done.

    The scripture "see that you are not misled" I believe should read "see that you do not mislead". There's a difference. A huge difference.

  • AGuest
    AGuest

    Yes, dear N.Drew (again, the greatest of love and peace to you!)... and "stumbling", as our Lord meant it, is directly related to misleading others. Unlike "stumbling" which occurs because (1) one has taken a false step themselves, or (2) one stumbles over something another says... because they can't receive it. Our Lord taught me of this when I first came out of the WTBTS... because I was still "enslaved" in a number of ways. One way was as to what others said... that I was not ready for/could not receive. It was the same way for; indeed, some were SO stumbled by what he said to them that they wouldn't follow HIM [any longer]:

    Most truly I say to YOU , Unless YOU eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, YOU have no life in yourselves. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood has everlasting life, and I shall resurrect him at the last day; for my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. He that feeds on my flesh and drinks my blood remains in union with me, and I in union with him. Just as the living Father sent me forth and I live because of the Father, he also that feeds on me, even that one will live because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. It is not as when YOUR forefathers ate and yet died. He that feeds on this bread will live forever.” These things he said as he was teaching in public assembly at Ca·per´na·um. Therefore many of his disciples, when they heard this, said: “This speech is shocking; who can listen to it?” But [Jesus], knowing in himself that his disciples were murmuring about this, said to them:Does this stumble YOU?" John 6:53-61

    and...

    " And after coming into his home territory he began to teach them in their synagogue, so that they were astounded and said: “Where did this man get this wisdom and these powerful works? Is this not the carpenter’s son? Is not his mother called Mary, and his brothers James and Joseph and Simon and Judas? 56 And his sisters, are they not all with us? Where, then, did this man get all these things?” So they began to stumble at him. But [Jesus] said to them: “A prophet is not unhonored except in his home territory and in his own house.” And he did not do many powerful works there on account of their lack of faith."Matthew 13:54-58

    and...

    " Then the disciples came up and said to him: “Do you know that the Pharisees stumbled at hearing what you said?” In reply he said: “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted." Matthew 15:12, 13

    What did he "say" to them? They were pushing at him, trying to trap him with their questions. He pulled no punches with them, though. In return, he called them hypocrites and forthrightly told them that they were the ones Isaiah prophesied about. But even the disciples had a problem with what he said to the Pharisees, so Peter asked him to explain. Did he go, "Oh, sure, Pete, dear... here's what I meant"? Not according to the record. According to the record, he was exasperated with THEM, TOO... because THEY didn't get it, either. So, he said to THEM:

    "Are you ALSO yet without understanding? Do YOU not also yet understand..."? Matthew 15:16, 17

    and went on to explain. But he felt that THEY (his disciples) SHOULD have gotten these things by now... even if the Pharisees didn't (and the latter didn't... because it wasn't GIVEN to them to do so - they weren't "planted" by God... weren't HIS seed... so things of the SPIRIT, as this was... COULDN'T be received by them).

    I post this because of the WTBTS indoctrination regarding stumbling... what it means to BE stumbled... by whom and under what circumstances. Because what we were taught is NOT in line with what Christ taught in all instances. It's very necessary to worry about stumbling others, yes. It's just as important, however, to not BE stumbled... or blame others if/when we are. If we are following the Lamb... wherever HE goes... then it's almost impossible to BE stumbled.

    Again, I bid you peace!

    YOUR servant and fellow slave of Christ,

    SA

  • sabastious
    sabastious

    N Drew, what leads you to believe that the translation is wrong? There is a black and white difference between being misled and misleading.

    -Sab

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