All due respect about the John 1:1 if it offends anyone. Basically I'm saying I just consider them to have access to different manuscripts and take their word for it.
Difficulties understanding passage.
by s-c-3-1-3 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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N.drew
"Okay, but the New World Translation adds"other" things, which means Jesus was both created and the creator of all things except for Jehovah, correct?"
It is true that the Watchtower Society ADDED the word "other" to the NWT Bible.
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Ding
It is true that the Watchtower Society ADDED the word "other" to the NWT Bible.
Yes, four times in Colossians 1:16-17 in order to support their teaching that Jesus is a created being.
To verify this, check a Greek interlinear, including the Kingdom Interlinear Translation.
They forgot to add it in John 1:3.
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s-c-3-1-3
Yes, but assume that it is a part of the scripture, thus when read it IS saying Jesus created all things except Jehovah, right?
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tenyearsafter
Welcome to the Board s-c-3-1-3...if you follow your line of reasoning, yes Jesus created all things except Jehovah...but why would you just assume that adding words is part of the original scripture? That is a bit intellectually dishonest to make that leap...just sayin'.
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sizemik
Yes, but assume that it is a part of the scripture, thus when read it IS saying Jesus created all things except Jehovah, right?
Not necessarily . . .
The only reference to "God" in the scripture is that Jesus is the visible representation of Him. It doesn't reveal a father / son relationship beyond that . . . nor does it reveal who created who in relation to Jesus and Jehovah as seperate entities. A lot more additional information is required in order to make such an absolute statement . . . more than what is provided by that single scripture. Placed alongside Gen Ch1 for example, changes how we might view it.
I'm not saying you're wrong . . . only that your statement requires more than that single scripture to be definitive.
Welcome to the Forum BTW
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s-c-3-1-3
I personally do not believe that "other" should be included, but for argument's sake I will agree with the Watchtower's translation.
If you read the passage carefully, it is certainly saying that all things besides Jehovah were created by Jesus. In fact, if it was saying Jehovah created everything it would not have put "other," right? It would have kept it in its original.
The real issue of confusion I am having is Genesis chapter 1 that talks about how Jehovah created all things; both cannot be right because the Watchtower says Jesus and God are not the same. I'm guessing it's because it's in the Old Testatemt? I'm just really not sure.
Basically, I am confused how the following two statements can be correct:
1. Sally invented the body wash.
2. Sally gave birth to Jennifer who invented the body wash.
In a way, this is kind of what Genesis is and Collosians. It's an example but maybe makes sense and helps you see where I'm confused?
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Black Sheep
Welcome to the forum.
Take a look at Isaiah from about chapter 43 too.
According to Isaiah, how many gods are there? & how many creators are there?
How do JW fit these in with John 1?
Chris
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sizemik
I see exactly where you're coming from . . .
Genesis Ch 1 attributes specific words and creative deeds to "God" . . . deeds that Col 1 then attributes to exclusively to Jesus.
From that alone it is difficult to reconcile the WTS interpretation of the creative works and who they are attributed to. At the very least . . . to view the God / Jesus relationship as strictly resembling a human father / son relationship is simplistic and naieve IMO. The opening phrase of Col 1;15 ie; He is the image of the invisible God . . . suggests to me a relationship that goes beyond a family relationship between two entities. If anything the teaching of Jesus being "God in the flesh" harmonises better with both Genesis and Collosians. Food for thought.
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smiddy
If you dont beleive "other" should be included, why do you beleive the Watchtowers translation? !!? "other " is an addition to the written word
and welcome s-c-3-1-3
smiddy