What do you mean N.Drew? I'm missing the point of posting the link...? One is One? Also, hwo do I make it so you can post more than 10? :(
Difficulties understanding passage.
by s-c-3-1-3 57 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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N.drew
Your on probation. New posters have only 10 posts each day for a period of time, I don't know how long.
One does not always mean an integer. Also it does not mean "the same as". When speaking of human relations "we are one" means we have the same goals.
synonyms of goal --- (by word monkey google) end , finish , destination , cognitive content , content , game equipment , mental object , score...
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N.drew
When I post a link it means I am pointing to the essence of the written word. Put aside preconceived notions and get into the head of the writer. But even then you must not lean on the written word because it would be the same as leaning on your own understanding in my opinion (imo).
Peace
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SweetBabyCheezits
Welcome to the forum!
In a way, this is kind of what Genesis is and Collosians. It's an example but maybe makes sense and helps you see where I'm confused?
Just my 2 cents: When you read the Bible as if it was a book of divinely inspired truths, it can be very confusing. But if you re-read the Bible without that presupposition, you'll probably reach the conclusion it was cobbled together by ancient man, a mix of historical people/places and religious mythology, as a means of control and, later, reform. Once you sort that out, the cognitive dissonance will go away.
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N.drew
You can use the edit app for a period of time (1/2 hour?) to fix or add to your post.
Also if you feel like you can't stand waiting to respond, you might use the private message app at the top right of page. It must be clicked twice to work.
You can also start a new topic (but I don't know how many a new poster gets).
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AGuest
The Most Holy One of Israel, JAH of Armies, brought forth a Son, dear SC313 (peace to you!)... from within the spirit realm, the "woman" that He loved, Jerusalem Above. He did so OUT of love... and BECAUSE of love. Thus, that One is the Son of God's LOVE... and the means by which God brought forth all other things... in the spirit realm as well as the physical realm. That love was SO great... that something was "born"... "brought forth". That Son. The substance of that Son is what all other things that came into existence came THROUGH, OUT OF, BY MEANS OF.
An easier way to look at it is sourdough: all loaves are the "product" of the original "mother dough." Each batch is created from the previous... so all include a bit of this "mother dough." Christ... is the "mother dough" that the Most Holy One of Israel used to create ALL other things. He, Christ, did not create them himself; he provided the "source"... HIS "light" (energy)... that allowed all others things to BE.
These "other" things... whether spiritual or physical... were brought into existence FOR him.
Thus, THROUGH him, by means OF him, and FOR him, then, all others things came to "be."
I hope this helps and, again, peace to you!
A slave of Christ,
SA
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SweetBabyCheezits
Wobble: The first thing the Bible did wrong was to Anthropomorphise the Supreme Being, if one were to exist, no description in human terms would suffice.
The Bible: Effing the ineffable for over two millennia.
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Larsinger58
It's so simple. One is the FATHER. One is the SON. Go to your dictionary and look up "father" and "son" if you don't know the meanings.
If you come up with anything else, then it's wrong. Plain and simple.
"The truth shall set you free."
LS
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s-c-3-1-3
Larsinger58, unfortunately, it is not this simple. Once again, I do believe that this passage is suggesting that Jesus is the creator, and am still waiting for someone to provide concrete evidence that I am wrong and Jehovah alone is the only creator. The thing is, if he used Jesus, would Genesis's account of creation go something like, "God commanded Jesus to create light." Are there any Jehovah Witnesses who believe that Jesus and Jehovah are one?
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Larsinger58
Sc-3-1-3: Greetings.
If one passage says Jehovah created all things and another says Jesus did, then for both to be true you have to combine that.
Now some resolve this by claiming Jesus and Jehovah are the same entity. But this ignores other scriptures that says Jesus is God's son. So another way to resolve this is by the specific passage that says that first Jehovah created Jesus and then BY HIM, FOR HIM AND THROUGH HIM all things were created.
A WTS illustration of how this works in a modern setting is someone dictating a letter to a secretary. The secretary prepares the letter and the administrator signs it and it goes out. The administrator can say, "I sent you a letter..." even thogh the actual sender was the secretary. The secretary can claim that they created the letter though, which they technically did. So when you use others to carry out your instructions, you still can claim "I did this" and "I did that" when technically you didn't, those who you instructed did.
Not difficult to understand. God can take credit for creating all things "through Christ" in one context, but in another can acknowledge that all things were technically created by Christ as well since it was through Christ all things were created.
SO YOU HAVE A CHOICE:
Does acknowledging Christ's participation in creation mean that he and Jehovah must be one person? Or does it mean Jehvah utilized him in the creation process?
That's your choice. Because the Bible says Jesus is the firstborn of creation, and thus a creature himself, which agrees with why he is called God's SON, I choose the latter to explain how Jesus is said to be the creator of all things. You have chosen to think this means they are the same person. That's your choice.
The Bible acknowledges the trinity doctrine would be a difficult doctrine to overturn for those who embrace it in Christendom, thus characterizing Christendom's believe in the trinity by the "666" which is the trinity formula: three gods yet one god = 666 = three numbers yet one number.
Bottom line, some scriptures do suggest that Jehovah and Jesus are the same person, some of this is "lost in translation" issues. So some will embrace the trinity doctrine based on that. Others will see some of these passages such as "I and the father one" as allegorical, representing what we mean when we say a husband and wife are one flesh, etc.
So since it is so difficult, one will not be jjudged on their belief or non-belief in the trinity doctrine, but other moral issues. Whether Jehovah and Jesus are the same person, if one is confused over that, will become clear after Armageddon and during the millennium.
LS