Having Faith in the Bible

by william draper 75 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  Finkelstein

  W B doesn't accept or want to acknowledge the indisputable known ignorance of the ancient Hebrews. Such as pointing out how one woman was raped and how the rapist was penalized. ( see the texts in the bible show how correct it is from a moral standard)
  

  He didn't point out the scripture in how if a man was to rape a woman who in unmarried, the man could buy the woman and pay a dowry to the father of the girl and make her his wife.

  Or the scripture that states a child should be killed if they bring continuous dishonor to their parents.

  Or that people who argue or pose doubts and questions to the directions of the high priests (apostates) were to be killed by stoning to death.

  Its quite clear that the ancient Hebrews thought the heavens /sky was a solid sheet

  of firmament said to be like a curtain or tent cover, we know that to be untrue today.

  
• 

  cappytan

  Lets look at the rape of Tamar found in 2nd Samuel 13 , how was this dealt with , the one that violated her was killed , be sure to read it all , if you don't you may think that many others were also killed , but there is a clarification that only Amnon was actually killed , for the rape of Tamar .

  Regarding the example of Tamar's rape that you mention, William, it's a little bit different than what you describe.

  That was an incestuous relationship. By law, Amnon should have been executed for the incest anyways, not necessarily the rape. If it wasn't rape, Tamar should have been executed too, but the bible says it was rape.

  Anyhow, Amnon wasn't executed by the priests or divine intervention...Absalom had him murdered against the wishes of Jehovah's anointed one, King David.

  What a heartwarming story about theocratic justice! Are we not blessed to have this understanding?

  *clap clap clap clap clap clap* /S
• 

  nicolaou

  God tells David, "Don't count my people". David counts the people.

  God tells David, "'Cos you were naughty you gotta pick your punishment; (a) 7 years of famine, (b) 3 months of national humiliation or (c) 3 days of pestilence? Choose Dave!"

  Dave can't pick so God chooses option 3 for him and kills 70,000 Israelites.

  Rightly miffed, Dave says to God, "Hey! God! It was my fault, what are you picking on them for? What have they done?"

  But God is pissed off now, no answer . . .

  (2 Samuel 24:1-25)

  Now explain to me William, where is the justice in your Gods actions here?
• 

  Finkelstein

  There is a lot of the bible's wittings which were expressed metaphorically, coinciding correctly with much about ancient mythology.
  

  Just to bring up to this page some thought provoking and insightful information by poster Terry

  Intellectual honesty compels you to start in a neutral frame of mind rather than assuming your presupposition into 'unassailable' status and inviting rebuttal.

  Your premise gives you away. You didn't ask if a good life well-lived necessarily compelled mankind to look toward ancient books as the foundation of truth and understanding. Why would anyone choose that as the starting point? The truly great strides mankind has made in the last two centuries have been IN SPITE OF the 'wisdom' of the world's 'holy' books.

  Equality for Women, Equality for people of color, child protection, banning smoking, awareness of the necessity of balanced diet and a regimen of exercise, public education, etc.---these strides toward improving society were secular in nature.

  Today's great battle will focus on acceptance of homosexuals as our brothers and sisters without prejudice. A free society cannot function without human rights.

  The Bible is the last refuge for narrow-minded bigotry disguised as piety and submission to the 'will of God'.
• 

  freemindfade

  Just because you find something good in the bible that if a man rapes a woman he should be killed, doesn't make it inspired of god, I am sure hitler and many other atrocious people had scruples with certain matters and even what we might call "morals". If hitler believed that anyone raping a woman should be killed would that make him good person or even god inspired???

  There are good people with god, there are bad people with god, there are good people without god, there are bad people without god, only good people do bad things with god
• 

  Chris Hannover

  Decent people are horrified at what the Bible calls ethics.

  Narcissist use the Bible as imaginary authority.
• 

  whathehadas

  This analogy is used frequently:

  The Bible is like a Sandwich, where people pick and choose what they want or don't want on it.

  The foundation (bread) may stay the same but depending on a person's preference of what taste good to them....The food items between the bread can change. Just like with the bible or you can say any holy book. Depending on the person, scriptures can be discarded or have a sauce put on them to make it easier to accept. Factor in that there are people that don't like to eat Sandwiches at all. They do like food of course, but just not that type.

  All in a figurative sense

  
  
• 

  william draper

  Terry . I gave you an answer on that question , there are of course other things as well .

  VI , you need to make more sure of what you post as being what the scripture says , for instance at DT 22: 28 , it does not appear to be rape , note it says , IF THEY ARE DISCOVERED this would imply willingness or some desire on the part of the woman , some women have been known to really want sex really badly , is this not true . There is little here to imply rape , . . . vs 28 and seizes her . . . NAS this could mean nothing more than . . .takes the woman into his arms . . or seduces her .

  In regards to the warfare where the women and male children were taken captive and later killed under the order of Moses , in the previous chapter it speaks of these people as having acted wickedly against the Israelites , the women turning the men to Baal Worship , and much more surely took place , note that before this many of the Israalite men were killed for Baal Worship , is this right , the worship of Baal involved child sacrifice I believe , at least at some point of time . WAS THAT A GOOD THING , NOT AT ALL . Were the Baal worshipers ever warned , yes they were by Balaam NUMBERS ch 24 , and probably again that we do not know about ,
• 

  Finkelstein

  So according to the ancient Hebrews it wasn't Ok to make a child sacrifice to a God but it was Ok to kill a child if they brought dishonor to their parents ?

  ummm that sounds wholesomely moral and just ???

  You just cant beat the structured moral standards of the ancient Hebrews can you ?
• 

  cappytan

  In regards to the warfare where the women and male children were taken captive and later killed under the order of Moses , in the previous chapter it speaks of these people as having acted wickedly against the Israelites , the women turning the men to Baal Worship , and much more surely took place , note that before this many of the Israalite men were killed for Baal Worship , is this right , the worship of Baal involved child sacrifice I believe , at least at some point of time . WAS THAT A GOOD THING , NOT AT ALL . Were the Baal worshipers ever warned , yes they were by Balaam NUMBERS ch 24 , and probably again that we do not know about ,

  So, basically, Moses and the Hebrews were ISIS.

  Stop trying to defend God and the Bible. If a God exists and were all-powerful, why can he not defend himself? This amazing being, with limitless power, needs to rely on Moses and his armies to defend true worship and execute judgement? The God that parted the red sea couldn't be bothered to lift a finger?

  Not to mention all the other bullcrap creation we have to deal with.

  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo