Did Jesus sacrifice really mean anything? (page 8)

Sulla

But for the Western mind and culture now some 300 years into the Age Of Enlightenment we, in growing numbers, cannot go back to admiring or even relating to a Human Sacrifice God.

The Western mind, huh? Designs, I recommend you read something like Koba the Dread and then compare how Stalin was viewed by the Left in the US during the period. I suspect you will lose a little bit of your faith in the post-Enlightenment, Western mind. I'm afraid the Western mind is just as much in love with human sacrifice gods as any stone age tribe ever was.

Fellow Catholics and Fundamentalists dig this kind of thing, relish it, weep over its emotion but for a ever growing xJW community religion is becoming an antiquity best viewed in a museum or beating in the political arena.

I think our views of the level of sophistication of the xJW community are quite different.

cofty

Sin seperates us from God

I don't have any sin.

Now the fact that Christ died and rose gives us the assurance of living again if we die.

Don't be silly of course he didn't.

tec

I know I get plenty of things dead wrong, but with all due respect, you have this innate ability to build an argument on legs of rickety logic and then, when someone points out the fallacy, suggest the idea should stand on it's own merit, completely ignoring the void that exists where the rickety legs once stood. And I hate to say that because you seem to be such a genuine poster with the best intentions.

Well maybe I was unclear, or maybe you misapplied what I said. Either way, we can chalk it up to a misunderstanding. Its not that big of a deal anyway.

Simply put: I disagree that true justice would permit an innocent volunteer to stand in place of a guilty felon, regardless of how noble or courageous the request may be.

I get that. My only point is that some might (and some do) look at... morality/innocence/guilt/justice/who deserves to be heard... from a completely different persepective.

A captain/leader of some sort will (sometimes) take the fall for the men under his command. Brothers, sisters, and close friends can sometimes take the blame of something for one another. Co-workers can as well. Often, what is done earns loyalty, respect, humility, and love (if it wasn't there to begin with). Not always, I understand.

To me, these are tangible results of using some critical thinking to suppress my own biases, though not to a degree I would like. Does that mean it's easy sailing for me now? No, since it's part of our nature, I know I'll always struggle with bias. But as long as I have the memory of my family disowning me because they failed to use critical thinking, I'll have the motivation to keep fighting bias.

We all have bias. Critical thinking can help to put that in balance. Being able to see something from different views can also help. Seeing different pov's doesn't mean you agree with them all. But I think it helps to balance out that bias that we all have, according to our upbringing and culture.

And no I was not a JW. I studied, made the decision to get baptized, believed it all, but something jumped out at me right after I made that decision. Something I had missed, and then I changed my mind, did a bible study on my own, and eventually checked out some on-line stuff; finding jwfacts and then this place.

Peace,

Tammy

Peace,

Tammy

cofty

A captain/leader of some sort will (sometimes) take the fall for the men under his command. Brothers, sisters, and close friends can sometimes take the blame of something for one another. Co-workers can as well.

But these always depend on being able to fool the person who ultimately dispenses justice. No judge who cared about justice would knowingly go along with this sort of pantomime.

designs

Ah-Sulla let's not pull pathologicial killers out of the Hat rather Voltaire, Rousseau, Thomas Paine and lets not forget the two Astonomers who opened deep space and time for us William and Caroline Herschel who in one brief span of 30 years sent Genesis packing.

Sulla

Ah, maybe you're right, Designs. Let's only think happy thoughts.

tec

But these always depend on being able to fool the person who ultimately dispenses justice. No judge who cared about justice would knowingly go along with this sort of pantomime.

No judge in our culture or legal system anyway. Which was kind of my point, that others might think differently.

A parent might allow it if one son took the rap for something the other son did wrong, and even be proud that the one had enough love for the other TO do it... and hope that the one getting off scott free learns from his brother's selflessness.

Peace,

tammy

designs

Sulla- Read: The Age Of Wonder, 17th and 18th century Science. If you haven't read about astronomer Caroline Herschel it is worth the time.

SweetBabyCheezits

Cofty: But these always depend on being able to fool the person who ultimately dispenses justice. No judge who cared about justice would knowingly go along with this sort of pantomime.

TEC: No judge in our culture or legal system anyway. Which was kind of my point, that others might think differently.

I concede that others do think differently, especially those guided by bronze age morals vs those who are guided by a sense of empathy. We have a record of several contrasting perceptions of justice in the Bible alone. For example, in the NT we have one standard of justice: Love your enemy, turn the other cheek, etc... Whereas in the OT, a completely different standard of justice: eye for an eye, numerous commands to kill the enemy, burn the enemy, stone a disrespectful child, etc...

Looking at the wild polarization of standards here, I retract my previous arguments. It's really no surprise that BibleGod's idea of justice is a moving target.

tec

SBC, what if this topic had absolutely nothing to do with Christ or God or christianity. What if it was just a theoretical discussion about various morality/justice and their pros and cons, in various cultures and time periods. Would you be approaching this subject with a different feeling if that were the case?

Nothing whatsoever to do with religion? Just different perspectives?

Did Jesus sacrifice really mean anything?

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