Why I Hate Religion, But Love Jesus

by d0rkyd00d 65 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  d0rkyd00d

  Cofty, my apologies for the condescending tone. I think we are simply speaking past each other, as you are talking about the "L"aw, and I am speaking of the shore laws and various others that were implemented by Judaism to prevent violating Mosaic Law.

  I think Randy wrote a pretty good post about what Jesus meant by "fulfilling the law." These are the kinds of things that, much like any Shakespeare novel, are in my opinion open to interpretation and debate, but is so often looked over by those who can view it from an objective standpoint (no religious bias). This is one of them. What is meant by fulfilling the law?

  Again, while there are some minor contradictions in the new testament, even between Jesus and the apostles, but the overall gist I pulled from it was that Jesus came to abolish the Law, including Mosaic Law; otherwise, as you mention, Christianity would simply be a Jewish sect. So it seems a lot rides on this concept quite heavily. Jesus said that the entire law hinges on two things: to love one's neighbor as himself, and to love God with all of one's heart.

  There is a vast difference between the God of the old testament and of the new testament. One commands to hate those who oppose him, the other to freely forgive all. One has freely forgiven sinners, the other kills on a whim. One judges based on action, the other on heart condition. To say that Christians follow the same God as Jews at the time did appears simply to be false.
• 

  wallsofjericho

  Qcmbr said:

  What I'm trying to say is - once you let go of the invisible you realise there was never anything there in the first place then suddenly something powerful becomes possible. All those times when you felt you couldn't get through a trial without divine support you realise you actually did it all by yourself, you realise you aren't a weak and helpless wandering soul needing a home but that in fact you are a magnificent human who is capable of wonder all on her own without recourse to the magical. You no longer need to await answers to prayers, you no longer linger kneeling by the bed begging for solace. Everything you need is already within you and around you in the form of friends and family and nature. The world and you in it are bigger than anything the minds of our ancient forefathers could ever write down and imagine so free yourself from a worldview that went out of date thousands of years ago.

  excellent. magnificent.

  This is the best and most complete explanation of this concept I have seen. Theists (and the WTS) ask how can anyone be happy knowing that this is all there is? There's your answer. The words take on much more meaning when you have personally experienced this epiphany.
• 

  Found Sheep

  Well watched the first one and most of the second one. Agnostic/athiest/unsure myself. I don't try to change how others feel about it. Well unless they are in a cult I may have a word or two. Some need religion as a crutch in life and who am I to judge?
• 

  cofty

  d0rkyd00d - Remember the title of thread. Many christians are dishonestly arguing the following Jesus is not a religion. The first video in the OP is a classic example of this sort of double-talk.

  again, while there are some minor contradictions in the new testament, even between Jesus and the apostles, but the overall gist I pulled from it was that Jesus came to abolish the Law, including Mosaic Law; otherwise, as you mention, Christianity would simply be a Jewish sect

  As I have argued above from words credited to Jesus himself nothing was further from his mind. Jesus was trying to restore the real meaning of the Law to people by by-passing the hypocritical religious leaders of his day and getting people to think about the spirit of the Law which is summarised as you said in love of god and neighbour. Jesus never even hinted at the idea that he would abolish the Law - that was entirely a later Pauline invention. The contradictions in the NT are very defintiely not "minor".

  What makes you think the Jesus of history intended to do anything other than start a Jewish revival, a new passion for the love of god and neighbour that was at the heart of the Law? Yes "christianity" was a Jewish sect. Nowhere did he hint that the requirements of the Law including sabbath and circumcision and diet etc would ever pass away.

  Jesus plainly said that heaven anad earth would pass away before a jot or tittle of the Law would pass away and told his followers to carry out all that the Law required.

  You will never understand the bible if you think of it as a harmonious theology. You need to step back and see the evolution of doctrine and practice. Don't forget too that history is writen by the victors.

  There is a vast difference between the God of the old testament and of the new testament. One commands to hate those who oppose him, the other to freely forgive all. One has freely forgiven sinners, the other kills on a whim. One judges based on action, the other on heart condition. To say that Christians follow the same God as Jews at the time did appears simply to be false.

  I completely disagree. This is based on a selective reading of both the old and new testaments. At least the god of the OT was finished with the sinner at death, not until 'Jesus meek and mild' do we get eternal punishment, fire, brimstone and worms.

  The bottom line is believers are arguing over one version of religion versus another. All the rhetoric is just that, "sound and fury signifying nothing".
• 

  d0rkyd00d

  Hey Cofty,

  I'm not ignoring you, but I am going to re-read through the new testament with the slant you've presented and see if it changes my perspective. If not, I'll be citing more specifics regarding my slant....I'll probably end up making a new thread about it. Thanks!
• 

  cofty

  Well done. I look forward to your thoughts on it later.