Theists, why does God allow suffering.. (page 59)

Fisherman

Yes it does.That is something you now know that previously you didn't know.

No, it doesn't. I does not change anything that I have measured to be known with certainty.

It proves that your previously held excuse for animal suffering is contradicted by reality.

It doesn't. The (evidence?) only shows that animals were prey and injured before sin. It does not invalidate the reason the Bible gives for pain and suffering after sin. If you think it does then you have to show it or if you have, refer me to the post. You can refer to those reasons as excuses based on your rule of good and bad but "you are not running the USA."

contradicted by reality.

Facts do change beliefs. i think that you are asking me plainly that why would a loving and merciful and compassionate God cause animal suffering as ruler before sin?

cofty

i think that you are asking me plainly that why would a loving and merciful and compassionate God cause animal suffering as ruler before sin?

Your excuse regarding "after sin" is illogical nonsense but let's leave that aside for the sake of debate and go with your question.

Why would a loving and merciful and compassionate God cause animal suffering before sin?

Viviane

Maybe. But there is no way to understand what she wrote.

Cofty got it. Maybe there was no way for you to understand it?

First cofty,my post was a response to DOT, who broadly seemed to. It was not directed at V.

If you want to write something to a specific person without the possibility of others reading it and commenting, use a PM.

Anyone that took the time to read my post about counting my money 3 times (measured it with an engineer's scale) should understand, I hope, that that is how one knows something with certainty versus believing something.

You clearly have no idea how to count money, certainly.

The (fact?) that pain and suffering existed before sin does not change anything that I know.

What, specifically, do you know that hasn't changed?

Facts do change beliefs as I demonstrated in my story about the bank teller

That story only demonstrated that you had faith in someone and didn't know how to count money.

That is what was implied in "my answer is know."

Works you how English know do?

Viviane

No, it doesn't. I does not change anything that I have measured to be known with certainty.

Sorry, apologies, but you clearly mean "really believe" instead of know. After all, you think an "engineer's scale" (whatever that is) is used to count money. You've given us only less reason to think you "know" things.

It does not invalidate the reason the Bible gives for pain and suffering after sin.

It means the reason is a lie since it existed prior to the reason. Your blood god has demanded death prior to the supposed reason. He is a liar and you give him fealty. For shame.

You can refer to those reasons as excuses based on your rule of good and bad but "you are not running the USA."

As a resident of the USA, I can proudly say that neither are you. Also, we are becoming far less religious and more secular over time, resulting in improved freedoms, better education, more civil rights and less ignorance. I hope you join that group.

Fisherman

Why would you count money with a scale? Do you use a ruler as an egg timer?

LOL Obviously, not. What do you think? I did not say count. I said measured. I meant count.

My story was meant to illustrate the difference between knowing with certainty and believing something. When I used the terms, engineer's scale, instrument, "a reading" , ruler, measurement and multiple measurements in my story, I was alluding to scientific fact in connection with something that I know with certainty versus something that I only believe in. I do know the difference (at least in my story). I was also fishing for anyone who has ever written a lab report above the grade 12, who I thought would "almost immediately" recognize these terms and could understand what I meant. I was also fishing for anyone that ever took the LSAT, who I thought would be able to decipher my very simple story. All I did was to express count in terms of measuring. I was also responding to Dot commentary and remarks previous to my story. Prior to Dot commentaries, I was trying to consider evidence he posted and arguments posted by cofty that seem to show that animals experienced pain and suffering before sin. Commentaries, ridicule, remarks,. beliefs do not make my money grow if you know what I mean. The Bible gives a reason why all creation is groaning after sin That is clear. Can anyone show from the Bible why a compassionate God would cause pain and suffering to any living creature prior to sin? That was the dialogue I was having with Caece, not "perhaps"

Fisherman

illogical nonsense

Support your view.

Viviane

LOL Obviously, not. What do you think? I did not say count. I said measured. I meant count.

Which kind of engineer's scale counts money rather than measures it? I only ask because so far your story is not adding up and, rather than assume you are making it up, I want you to have the opportunity to correct it.

You've already had multiple opportunities, it needs to make sense now or it looks like you are making up a whole lot of things.

My story was meant to illustrate the difference between knowing with certainty and believing something.

Exactly. So far everyone knows your story is completely not making sense and no one believes it. You need to fix that.

When I used the terms, engineer's scale, instrument, "a reading" , ruler, measurement and multiple measurements in my story, I was alluding to scientific fact in connection with something that I know with certainty versus something that I only believe in.

So...are you making this up or not? If so, it's a horrible story that illustrates you don't know anything about money, counting, measuring or science. If not... well, it shows the same thing.

I was also fishing for anyone who has ever written a lab report above the grade 12, who I thought would "almost immediately" recognize these terms and could understand what I meant.

So far it's not clear that you know what you mean.

I was also fishing for anyone that ever took the LSAT, who I thought would be able to decipher my very simple story. All I did was to express count in terms of measuring.

I've taken the LSAT and scored above 98%. I still wouldn't use and engineer's scale (whatever that is) to count money, no more than I would use a ruler to weigh a melon. Your story is sounding more and more like you made something up and are trying to make it sound clever, but are only succeeding in proving you don't nor did have any idea what you are on about.

Commentaries, ridicule, remarks,. beliefs do not make my money grow if you know what I mean.

No, no one does. Use English and complete sentences and then we might.

Can anyone show from the Bible why a compassionate God would cause pain and suffering to any living creature prior to sin? That was the dialogue I was having with Caece, not "perhaps"

No, no one can. Hence, you worship a bloodthirsty death God who, oh ho ho ho, also happens to enjoy the pensis of baby boys and raping virgins.