Theists, why does God allow suffering.. (page 69)

cofty

Suffering in no way proves if God exists or doesn't....

That depends on how you are define god. "Natural evil" proves absolutely that Jesus' god does not exist.

Your problem isn't with God... it is with who wrote the bible. Humans (with inspiration of course) pinned it. They did the best they could to explain and understand as they could but... Human minds are limited and we have greatly grown in knowledge since biblical days.

I believe the bible is truth but it must be understood through the culture and experience of the human co-writers.

little_Socrates

Actually I like using "reductio ad absurdum" and I don't think it was an error here. A great way to test an argument is to stretch it to its breaking point to see if it holds up. You do the same thing :)

freemindfade

With all do respect little_socrates what is the point of the bible then? By your own admission it's written by humans who don't understand god. But it was inspired? This is where I feel like I'm about to hear "well you just have to have faith". And I mean no disrespect. Just giving my thoughts.

little_Socrates

Freemindfade I don't know exactly how to answer that without going way off topic. Let me think about how to answer this correctly :)

little_Socrates

Do Christians really believe that every word in the bible was literally written by God? Is it crazy for me to think there is a combined human and divine authorship?

cofty

I like using "reductio ad absurdum" and I don't think it was an error here. A great way to test an argument is to stretch it to its breaking point to see if it holds up. You do the same thing

No in this instance it didn't work.

I have never asserted that all and any suffering tells us anything about god

little_Socrates

I am sorry you are confusing me...

"I have never asserted that all and any suffering tells us anything about god"

"Suffering proves the god of christian theism does not exist. It is a point worth repeating. Please stop trying to change the subject."

How do you reconcile these two statements? Are you saying suffering disproves "the god of the bible" but dosn't necessarily disprove of some other type of God?

CalebInFloroda

@freemindfade

The Hebrew texts are for Jews an interpretation of their history through the eyes of their theology. It reinterprets our history in ways as to preserve our values but also teaches lessons, much like American history has its George Washington chopping down the cherry tree and the Midnight Ride of Paul Revere. Just like the legendary history of America is not the basis of America, Jews do not view their Scriptures as the foundation of our nation or religion. It is instead a product, with the Torah containing the foundational principles of our first constitution and the laws attached to it. Belief in G-d existed prior to its composition and is based on legends of a national theophany experienced at the foot of Mt. Sinai after the Exodus.

As for the New Testament, most Christians attribute some foundational importance to it. For Catholics it is part of their Deposit of Faith along with what was taught by the original Apostolic college. Since Catholicism existed some three to four centuries before the NT texts were canonized, their Apostolic teachings (referred to as Tradition) are just as important as the texts their religion produced and canonized. Evidence of G-d is independent of the written part of the Deposit of Faith because the religion existed prior to their composition. Instead G-d is seen as explained through the addition of Scripture.

For most Protestants, the NT is the foundation and ultimate form of authority and revelation the church has, second to the incarnation. From it are all doctrines drawn (or so it is claimed) while recognizing some Apostolic tradition as long as it does not contradict Scripture. Proof of G-d is supported and often defined by this approach.

For Fundamentalists the Scriptures are the ultimate and final revelation. All doctrine must be based from the texts, and there is no room for Apostolic tradition. For this group the written revelation is proof of G-d in and of itself.

little_Socrates

CalebinFloroda THANK YOU you explained what I wanted to say much better than I could have. Coming from a different background than I really helped :)

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

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