Theists, why does God allow suffering.. (page 72)

punkofnice

Some old bird in a garden listened to a talking snake and ate an apple. Wow. How evil!

Yes. I can see why god decided to subject the human race to misery for thousands of years with no let up. Yeah, makes sense. Why not just slap the naughty people on the wrist when you can watch all humanity suffer?

From this historic drama I believe that humans must not eat apples. (See what I did there?)

God either doesn't exist and it's just men making this monsense up - or - god is a vile, sadistic piece of filth that loves torture. He even sent part of himself so he could watch that part be tortured.

NONE of the promises that things will get better ever happened....and they won't. Wake up time.

TheWonderofYou

cofty: The answer of the catolic church is according to pope john paul II., Yes, God is in a certain wise powerless and he stands on the side of the suffering ones like the biblical "man of sorrows". I ask for patience because english is not my motherlangue.

Furthter its seems to be that the whole creation - and men are part of creation expecially if we think of the natural laws that lead to human life, and the natural laws that regulate our life and our pain - has the same fate as the other creation living and non living, and as animals.

Sparrows: Jesus said that God knows about the fate of the sparrows not because he was anaware of their actual lifesituation, but to show that God stands on our side, that God is our only hope for salvation, and in the jewish-christian thinking context, that fate of mankind is always the fate of the whole cosmos.

Jesus'suffering was not a necessary quanititive asset to be paid to a God or the Devil as ransom, but is the merely the conclusion of a devoted life, thus his suffering is the same suffering that we face , it is a suffering "with us together", a kind of solidarity. like a brother gives his life for his sister or similar.

I looked up more infos about that matter and will write later beginning what the hebrew sprictures tell about suffering.

cofty

according to pope john paul II... God is in a certain wise powerless and he stands on the side of the suffering ones like the biblical "man of sorrows".

The Pope said a lot of stupid things.

If god made the universe then he is not powerless. He chooses to be powerless in the face of unimaginable suffering.

We call this callousness.

It is contradicted by the story of Jesus of the gospels who was moved with pity and relieved suffering in practical ways. So which is it? God of love, or god who doesn't give a shit?

Please don't use copy-paste in your reply.

Bonsai

I go for a walk in the forest and a tick latches on to my clothes. While I'm sleeping the tick bites into me and inserts lyme disease. I weaken get sick and without treatment I will likely die. Another man goes into the jungle, gets bitten by a viper and dies a horrible death. A third man walks into the forest and eats a poisonous berry that he mistook for a black berry. He dies... Where was god? Why did he create the natural world to be like that? The answer is: He didn't. There is no loving god. There probably, in all likelihood, is no creator at all.

No matter how you try to stretch it, this universe gives us no indication that a loving god exists. People want to believe he does (me included), but reality can be a bit**.

Caedes

If you are claiming that jesus suffered because he was killed by the romans and thus god understands suffering and chose to suffer for three days to prove that point are you not forgetting that jesus asked why had god forsaken him. If even three days was too much you would think he might have learnt some empathy for the millions of years of suffering the rest of his creation had undergone.

Whether you like it or not there is a gaping hole in your argument, this is not the same as me being angry with your god.

Viviane

I can see where you're coming from Viv. But the last chapter is going to one of peace and happiness and eternal life for people. Those people will understand the ultimate love God has for mankind.

No, there is no "but" here. If I neglect my children, beat them, etc., it doesn't make all of that OK because I made sure to save up for their college education and buy them a car.

Your god is a moral reprobate and a dick.

StrongHaiku

LorenzoSmithXVII - But yes, there are many horrors that God permits.

You can stop right there. If he exists and is all powerful, why would he permit ANY horrors? I can come up with a number of scenarios where we could have avoided all of the suffering from the start. Can't you? I can come up with a number of ways so people could gain eternal life without passing through a sadistic rube-goldberg, "Hunger Games"-like, gauntlet. Can't you? I can come up with better ideas and laws he has (e.g. sanctioning of slavery, subjugation of women, genocide, etc.). Can't you? I can think of better ways to communicate the most important message in the history of the Universe clearly with mankind as opposed to using dead languages, hearsay, riddles, interpretations, etc. Can't you?

The God you describe is not only a "moral reprobate and a dick" to quote Viviane, but he lacks any imagination. I am better than your God. And, so are you because, if I substituted "God" with "Zeus" (or some other God that for some reason you do not worship) in your post, you would have found your explanation absurd and immoral.

Bonsai

StrongHaiku, that has got to be the best post that I have read this month. So true. I couldn't have expressed it any better. We should have a post of the month award!

defender of truth

Excellent points, StrongHaiku.

So, Christian theists, the best response you can give (or that anyone can give on their behalf) is basically:

My God loves his creation, and would undoubtedly prevent his creatures from dying in horrific and drawn-out ways IF it were for the best, but He has decided that this is the best way for so many of His creatures to cease to exist.. Starvation, disease, cancers, and even mass extinction.

And anyone who defines allowing these things as unloving and callous, only needs to realise that this hypothetical loving God may be all-wise, all powerful, and wants to show love for His creation..

Yet He is helpless, and subject to the very laws that He established, in the universe He created.. laws which somehow prevent Him from curing cancer in animals , for example.

Sounds logical to me..

Theists, why does God allow suffering..

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