Cognitive Dissonance for Fundamenatlists

by leavingwt 128 Replies latest jw friends

  • cofty
    cofty

    Sulla - Although none of us can be sure what we would have done in another cultural context we can reflect on how we hope we would have acted.

    When atheists read about the genocide and cold blooded infanticide that the bible says Yahweh ordered the armies of Joshua to carry out, we are repulsed and condemn it as barbaric.

    When a bible believing christian reads the same accounts they have no option but to applaud the baby murderers as icons of faith and hope they would also have had the fortitude to brutally hack their fair share of babies to death.

  • designs
    designs

    Socrates and Aristotle showed how new ideas could be introduced in a civilization steeped in gods and demons.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Christians celebrate human sacrifice every year. The season is upon us soon.

  • designs
    designs

    Yes, how many Christians will have their friends nail them to a Cross in imitation of their leader.

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    A few. It gets really good around the 2 minute mark! Isn't it beautiful?

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJguFydKj-Q&feature=related

  • designs
  • Sulla
    Sulla

    When people were at the whim of their environment with little understanding of how natural phenomena worked, they created their answers. It gave them a sense of control. Appease this god, and maybe we won't have drought or flooding. But what about today? Knowledge is all around us. Information pours from our computer. We don't need to burn witches anymore, because we understand bacteria and have found the real cause of plague.

    It isn't a matter of excusing them so much as it is a matter of understanding that we are them. The idea that we know better now because we have science is just not related to the evidence. The 20th century was brutal beyond description, yet we were very thoroughly modern and scientific. There is something about the sacrificial idea that is deeply coded in the human experience. It is folly to suppose we have somehow left all that behind. We have not. Not even the more smug and preening among us here have.

    Although none of us can be sure what we would have done in another cultural context we can reflect on how we hope we would have acted.

    But the whole idea, cofty, is that the brutality we read about is still part of the human condition. The shocking brutality of the Iliad, for example, is still read today simply because it speaks to these permanent aspects of how we experience life as humans. It is as impossible for us to condemn Achilles or Ajax as it is (or ought to be) for us to condemn Joshua. But one thing I don't think we can do is productively speak about how we hope we would have thought -- for actions taken at a time when the moral perspective we have now simply didn't exist, but all of the human pressures and fears did.

    The great disadvantage the OT has is that it perceives the "wrongness" of some, but not all, of these violent acts. The ancient Jews were not, as it happens, guided to become 21st century Sweden, which to some of us is somehow a great moral failing.

    When atheists read about the genocide and cold blooded infanticide that the bible says Yahweh ordered the armies of Joshua to carry out, we are repulsed and condemn it as barbaric.

    I'm sorry, cofty, but surely you mean nice atheists like you, right? The bad ol' atheists like Stalin or Robespierre, given their acts, surely didn't bat an eyelash.

    When a bible believing christian reads the same accounts they have no option but to applaud the baby murderers as icons of faith and hope they would also have had the fortitude to brutally hack their fair share of babies to death.

    As a bible-believing Christian myself, could I suggest you don't know what you are talking about? I mean, I think I have some other options here than the one you have for me.

  • Sulla
    Sulla

    Christians celebrate human sacrifice every year. The season is upon us soon.

    You do know that Easter is the celebration of the Resurection, a victory over death, right? You do know the diffence between Good Friday and Easter Sunday -- how these days are observed -- right?

    Not that this knowledge should impede you in any way whatever...

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    Is Good Friday not around the corner? Are you not acknowledging human sacrifice on that day? Isn't that the day you commemorate your god sacrificing his human son? Isn't that what the crucifix on the church wall is all about? Not sure what you are saying. But I'm sure the festivities will involve drinking the blood of this sacrifice.

    NC

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    It was Yaweh's will that his son be sacrificed. That was the plan. Without that human sacrifice, humans had no hope. So he sent a gift---a human sacrifice---to give humans hope. And yet what happens when these humans carry out his will and sacrifice the man that they had to sacrificed in order for them to be redeemed? He gets pissed off. Judas Iscariot was a friend to all humankind. Oh well. I guess that's what they mean by no good deed goes unpunished.

    NC

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