If the WT dumped 1914 tommorow ...?

by faithfulslavedriver 70 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • Ucantnome
    Ucantnome

    Anyways, do you think that if WT decided to face the fact that 607-1914 is an indefensible pile of crap that has been artificially kept steaming for way too long, would it really kick off a mass exodus or anything?

    I don't think it would.

    Recently I spoke with someone who has been a Witness for along time and doesnt support the 607-1914 view. They were happy to continue as a Witness as it fulfilled their spiritual need. Associating with fellow believers, preaching and study of the bible.

    The brother who was a friend of my parents once said that even if it was wrong he would still stay a Witness as it was the best way of life.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    In what way, I wonder, can worshipping the Governing Body and serving the imaginary God of the Watchtower be considered a better way of life than so many other lifestyles I could name ?

    If the 7mill can swallow the overlapping generation twaddle, they would not even blink if the WT dropped 1914.

    It would not occur to them that without 1914 the present GB has no authority, no appointment from J.C or anybody, so no right to dispense what it calls "spiritual food", and certainly no right to make up rules and regulations.

    The cult would continue, because the control of their minds would never relax, they would never be allowed to truly think.

  • Searril
    Searril

    I became the messiah on December 25, 1992.

    Although I'm not a regular here, I have seen you post this multiple times. I am curious. Do you have followers? What I mean by that is obviously you know that no one here believes you are the messiah. Do you have anyone currently in your life right now who accepts you as the messiah and publicly confesses as much?

    I'm coming out now more since likely Armageddon will occur this year. I'm to be revealed soon so I'm providing some background and context for when I'm revealed.

    If Armageddon did not come this year, how would that affect your beliefs about yourself? If Armageddon did not come for the next 5 or 10 years?

    Would you find it reasonable, if you were me, to confess you as the messiah and take the risk of destroying my salvation if it turned out you really aren't the messiah since you haven't given any evidence of such. I think we can agree that Jesus had no trouble giving evidence that he was who he claimed to be.

  • Searril
    Searril

    Still waiting for answers.

  • Billy the Ex-Bethelite
    Billy the Ex-Bethelite

    Welcome faithfulslavedriver & OldGenerationDude!

    Great observations. A fundamental problem is that the current GB aren't great "thinkers". They got where they are by supporting the old teachings. And they've purged a lot of bethel staff that might have had new ideas. They're more interested in keeping the "company men" that won't rock the boat. Consequently, I don't see them coming up with anything new to replace 1914 or an effective way to dump 1914.

    Their "overlapping generations" teaching is a trainwreck. Clearly they're trying to push 1914 in the background by putting it in the appendix, rather than the main text of the Bible Teach book. But a lot of things unravel if they dump 1914. They're trying to put more and more emphasis on the GB and FDS authority.

    Time isn't in WT's favor. Their teachings don't age well and they don't have any great options. So I predict that they'll just keep doing more of the same.

  • Honesty
    Honesty

    It wouldn't faze die hard dubs because they are used to having the society do their thinking for them.

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro

    I haven't read all the responses, so apologies if I'm doubling up...

    The Watch Tower Society has already been focussing less on 1914. It is still a core dotrine and their claim of authority falls apart without it, but they don't talk about it as much. In the last couple of decades, they've put less focus on October of 1914. Additionally, there has been less focus on 1914 in general. The following table shows the average number of times per month that The Watchtower has mentioned 1914 per decade. (Some instances are not directly related to JW theology, but incidental references to 1914 are infrequent.)

    DecadeAverage
    50s90
    60s90
    70s60
    80s83
    90s49
    00s22
    10s12

    Since the introduction of The Watchtower Study Edition in 2008, the Public Edition has only mentioned 1914 four times (five counting an entirely incidental appearance), and never with any reference to 607. Similarly, there has been a significant reduction in discussion of 1914 in the context of 607 in general. The following table shows the number of occurences of 1914 and 607 appearing in the same paragraph.

    DecadeOccurences
    50s98
    60s89
    70s74
    80s45
    90s18
    00s21
    10s0

    There are two main reasons for this. Firstly, most of the people who were alive in 1914 are dead, and this is the same reason for the ridiculously implausible 2010 redefinition of "generation". Secondly, prior to the Internet era, it was much simpler to simply pass off 607 as if it were fact, because it took a little more effort to verify, and the average 'faithful' JW wouldn't bother. Now, it is a much easier task for even the laziest researcher to confirm that there is no evidence in support of 607, and therefore of 1914. It is therefore simpler to avoid mentioning the elephant in the room. (Even in their most recent, and easily refuted, attempt at defending their 607 doctrine, they don't mention 1914 at all.)

    There is still an appendix specifically dealing with 1914 in the Bible Teach book, which may seem counter-intuitive to the idea that they are putting less focus on 1914. However, the usual setting for considering that material is when a JW is trying to convince a prospective new member of JW beliefs, and its presence in that situation serves to reinforce the belief in their own mind. Additionally, 'weaker' JWs, who might otherwise be more likely to try to verify the information, are less likely to be conducting Bible studies, and therefore less likely to consider the material.

  • steve2
    steve2

    Jethro, I am impressed. I have long wondered whether this kind of content analysis had ever been done in the Watchtower magazine. Well done.

    Did your anaylsis take into account that the total number of words in the Watchtower magazine may have decreased over the decades regardless of the topic? The reason I ask is an impression I have that the current Watchtower literature - in common with may publications, secular and religious - has significnatly fewer words and bigger, brighter pictures. Hence, what could look like a decreased emphasis on a core doctrine may be a function of fewer words used in the literature across all topics under review. I had therefore wondered if it would be more accurate to divide the total number of references to 1914 by the total number of words in the magazines at any point on time - that way, we could see if the decreased references to 1914 were due to de-emphasizing it and not to the fewer words used in the total magaizne? Does that make sense?

  • Searril
    Searril

    As you've been still unwilling to answer my simple questions I must assume that not a single person on the planet has accepted you as the Messiah. Would the real Messiah have trouble convincing even one single person out of 7 billion?

  • Jeffro
    Jeffro
    Jethro, I am impressed. I have long wondered whether this kind of content analysis had ever been done in the Watchtower magazine. Well done.

    Thanks. (But it's Jeffro, not Jethro.)

    Did your anaylsis take into account that the total number of words in the Watchtower magazine may have decreased over the decades regardless of the topic? The reason I ask is an impression I have that the current Watchtower literature - in common with may publications, secular and religious - has significnatly fewer words and bigger, brighter pictures. Hence, what could look like a decreased emphasis on a core doctrine may be a function of fewer words used in the literature across all topics under review. I had therefore wondered if it would be more accurate to divide the total number of references to 1914 by the total number of words in the magazines at any point on time - that way, we could see if the decreased references to 1914 were due to de-emphasizing it and not to the fewer words used in the total magaizne? Does that make sense?

    I only did a basic count, and I'm not interested in doing a detailed analysis to the degree suggested. I am aware that articles in general have been dumbed down over time, and have also been made more ambiguous--a lesson they've learned from making predictions that were more obviously doomed to explicit failure. However, the almost complete absence of 1914 in the Public Edition since its inception lends support to my overview. (There was also a decrease in mentioning 1914 in The Watchtower for the two years immediately following 1975.)

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