Blame the designer and not the product: God and the lame Free Will argument

by Terry 140 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  bioflex

  @Terry: Consequently, all that "gift" of Free Will can do for man is give him the strong opportunity to DISOBEY and that means sin and that equals DEATH.

  Free will DOES NOT equal sin. Free will equals variety

  Genesis 2:15 And the LORD God took the man, and put him into the garden of Eden to dress it and to keep it. 16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

  Disobedience is sin which is equal to death

  17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

  As i said earlier, there can only be a law abiding citizen when there is a law to obey.
• 

  bioflex

  @Terry: Should I let my child burn her hand so that she'll discover that fire can scar her for life?

  After all, exercising her "free will" is there for just that purpose: hurting herself through bad choices!

  Now as much as i dont agree with FaithfulBrother's post i think you are missing the point here.

  Let's say you tell your child NOT to touch fire and she disobeys ang gets burned then, then point here is not she scaring herself but rather disobeying your command. Lets replace fire with water , or maybe snow. Your child would definitely NOT get hurt if they disobey your command telling them not to touch water or snow but the point is they disobeyed your order. And the consequencies of their disobedience to entirely up to you.

  Now, the same applies to man, the point was not man eating of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil but rather disobeying God's command. And since Disobedience = Sin = Death, the resulf of mans disobedience was death. But that was not all, there were consequencies for eating of the tree too.

  Lets say your command to your child is dont touch fire. then we can say

  1. Consequencies of disobeying you order = Grounding for a week

  2. Consequencies of touching fire = Pain and scaring herself for life

  Hope you get the point now.
• 

  N.drew

  I have given the Stepford husband thing some thought

  And have come to conclude that no I would not prefer a programmed husband. The reason why is love grows. A husband's and wife's love grows together. A programmed thing does not grow. So no perfectly programmed husband for me! Please take me off the list.

  (double ems are wibble! )
• 

  sabastious

  The Bible God is a pathetically morbid failure of depressing magnitude who deserves our pity and contempt for being so unimaginative in the use of His superpowers!!!

  Too many assumptions! What are his superpowers?

  -Sab
• 

  Knowsnothing

  Nancy, you do realise it could go both ways. You could "grow apart" as well. You'd be taking a risk. Do you prefer "security" or "growth?"
• 

  N.drew

  You could "grow apart" as well. You'd be taking a risk. Do you prefer "security" or "growth?"

  I much prefer growth over security. I believe there is not such a thing as secure security (I'm not being funny) but growth is real. Maybe I should say "true" security but that would be me denying heaven which has been made secure imo. I'm not humble, but I try, I really do!

  In other words (you were the one to bring up "security" OK?), if a human being promises you security, don't believe it.
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  Knowsnothing

  Ahh, but a robot would. Security in the sense of reliable. You oil it well, give it good maintenance, and it in turn serves you well. Pragmatism, my dear Watson.
• 

  N.drew

  Ahh, but a robot would. Security in the sense of reliable. You oil it well, give it good maintenance, and it in turn serves you well.

  OK The girls might hate me for this but I feel a strong compulsion to argue

  Someone might steel steal (haha!) the robot or even weirder reprogram it without you knowing it.
• 

  Knowsnothing

  Aw hell, I won't argue with your line of reasoning. I liked what you said.
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  Terry

  It amazes me that people who are willing to fight (by whatever means - in battle or with words or in the law or politics), kill and die to ensure their freedom and that of future generations... that some of these same people call God out for granting the freedom that we hold so dear.

  WOW!

  This a MAJOR breakthrough!

  You got it exactly inside out!

  You stated it elegantly!

  People fight, kill and die to preserve FREEDOM while crying out to God to supercede!

  PRAYER is what proves my point!

  The essence of prayer is the removal of our own freedom to reap the consequences of our liberty to screw up!!