Want honest answers

by independenthinker 73 Replies latest jw experiences

  • independenthinker
    independenthinker

    giordiano, i enjoyed your article. when i first read about all the prophecys, i was so sad when i realised that millions living who thought they would neve die. . .did!

    its the fact they never ever adress deuteronomy 18:20-22 that annoyp me. . sweetbabycheezits, i tell my girlfriend everything. i used to pray that she'd learn the truth, now im hoping she never does. i couldn't understand how jehovah could kill everyone who's not jw, when theres so many other religions who think the same about themselves. my mother and father know about my gf for about 6 months, they weren't happy but see how lovely she is now. were rank and file, nothing special as my 2 brothers and sister all left. . theyre coming back from england so im gonna talk to them soon. and yes, im gonna attend college, studying music(which wasn't encouraged as i want to be a musician) or psychology(also discouraged - human reasoning). i'd rather kill myself than be a window cleaner!

  • palmtree67
    palmtree67

    Thank you, Baby Cheezits!

    BTW, independentthinker: The reason disproving 607 is so important is because if they don't have 607, then they don't have 1914. If they don't have 1914, they don't have an exclusive organization chosen by God.

  • blond-moment
    blond-moment

    I know you are scared, I remember being terrified. I too struggled with, what does Jehovah want? These men "claim" to speak for Jehovah, that is not the same as actually speaking for him. The bible is very clear on this matter. If they say I said something, and it doesn't happen, they are not speaking for me. As you are seeing for yourself, they HAVE claimed to speak for Jehovah and it HASN'T come to pass. They are NOT speaking for Jehovah. This organization is NOT Jehovah. You will soon be able to separate the two, just take a deep breath. You don't have to leave Jehovah. One thing at a time.

    They (the WT) claims not to be inspired, therefore they can make whatever mistakes they want to. They claim, they do not speak for Jehovah, therefore they can make whatever mistakes they want to. You will find however, in their own literature, they have made MANY claims to speak for Jehovah, many claims that Jehovah puts these things "directly into their heads", they claim to be the prophet class (Jeremiah class, Ezekiel class, etc). Claiming doesn't make it true. The bible tells us how we will know His prophets.

    I too recommend Crisis of Conscience. A Governing Body member, who devotes his whole life to this organization, becomes a Governing Body member, and gives it all up, in his late 50s, to mow lawns. Don't you want to know WHY? I did.

    It gives real insight to the inner workings of this organization. I was scared to read it, so I read up on Raymond Franz first. Seemed that everyone who knew him, both in and out of the organization, both active and DF'd, didn't have much negative to say about him, most were glowing reviews of the man, humble, loved the bible, loved Jehovah, caring, etc. The only real bad reviews of the man and the book, were by those who didn't know him, and hadn't read the book.

    So I (breaking out in cold sweats at first) read the book. I was most impressed with how fair he was. I was expecting anger and venom, that's not what he wrote. He just told what happened, without being mean. It also helped free me from this organization, and separate Jehovah from this organization. I also, researched what he wrote about, I still had to see it for myself, you could say.

    JWs will argue that he was DF'd, therefore unreliable. The reality, he resigned, and left, and they cracked down on how you treat the DF'd and the DA'd, and then DF'd him retroactively to pre-emptively shut him up. People who knew him, couldn't understand what was happening, and many people were being hurt as a result, trying to find out. That was why he wrote the book, so folks would know, without getting hurt. Ironic that in trying to shut him up, they forced him to speak out. If the GB would have just left folks alone, he probably would have never said a word. He wasn't out to cause trouble, he was only trying to stop the trouble that was being caused.

    You will hear things about the 'great purge of 1980'. I personally was around at that time, and remember it. One Watchtower, Jesus is mediator for all, next Watchtower he is only the mediator for the 144K. Many had a problem rectifying that with the scriptures, Raymond included. Many left, many were unfairly DF'd, it was a frantic and paranoid time.

    The WT wants to control all the information, they want you to only hear their side. You will find, for the most part, many of us, only want to help you find out for yourself. Most of us are not interested in telling you WHAT to think, or HOW to think, we just encourage you to think.

    If you haven't seen the matrix, now might be a good time. This is very much like that. We find our whole world, isn't real. Whoa. Even tho we never learn to do the superman thing haha, we do gain freedom.

  • 00DAD
    00DAD

    Welcome!

    It's hard to add much to the multitude of good advice and suggestions written above. But know that this is a good place to vent, to ask questions, get answers and heal.

    You've got a tough time ahead of you, but as has been said before, "Welcome to the rest of YOUR life!"

    00DAD

  • Cadellin
    Cadellin

    Independentthinker:

    Welcome! First, it will be okay...eventually. Probably not tomorrow or the next day, though. It's kind of like when Neo wakes up in the pod in the first Matrix and he's naked and helpless. Well, I'm sure you're not naked and helpless, except maybe a little emotionally after discoving the truth about the "truth." But as I said, it will be okay eventually, as long as you keep on investigating and learning and questioning. You've been given some great advice already, but I'll just second the advice to hone your critical thinking skills, whether it's analysing the WT or anything you read on the Internet, including this site. I would say that most of what I've read on this site jibes with my own life experience (raised a JW and gradually faded in my late 30's/early 40's) but not everything.

    When I was going through exactly what you're going through--wondering who's lying to me and who's telling the truth--I approached it this way: If our interpretation of the Bible is correct, then what else should also be true? IOO, what are the implications of a particular belief?

    For example, if we REALLY ARE living in the worst possible time for humanity, at a time when Matt 24 is coming true and famine, pestilence, warfare and earthquakes are all worse than at any other time in history--if that really is where we are and, in fact, where we've been for nearly a century--then what should we see in terms of effects on population demographics? Well, it's been proven that factors like these have a negative impact on population growth--that is, populations SHRINK when hit w/multiple whammies over a long period of time. So, we should see some kind of population decrease, right? What do we see? For the last century, earth's population has exploded. Not only that, people are living longer than ever, even in third world countries. So what accounts for this? Is famine worse now/in the last century than in any other time? Disease? Crime and violence? This is where I started researching these issues on my own and discovering that contrary to what the WT has been saying, the human race is actually in a period of unparalleled peace and prosperity. It's all relative, of course--yes, there's still famine, disease and warfare but IN COMPARISON TO THE PAST, it's on a much smaller and more controlled scale.

    This is the kind of independent research you might want to do. You can do it with other questions like "If Noah's flood were literally true, what kind of evidence would we see?" "If the human family were really only 6,000 years old, what would that mean?"

    I'll stop now. You're on the right track. Don't give up. And don't feel pressured to suddenly stop going to all meetings or radically change your routine. In fact, it might be better to just stick to your regular schedule, maybe skip service a bit more, and just read, read, read. Take your time. You've got plenty!!!

  • wannabefree
    wannabefree

    Why?

    In my opinion, over time, "The Organization" became a living thing in a sense, it has it's own identity, people believe it is "God's Organization" and therefore will do whatever is necessary to protect it and defend it. The term "Captives of a Concept", used by Ray Franz in his book Crisis of Conscience and later used as the title of the book by Don Cameron defines it well. The thought that it isn't God's Organization is just inconceivable, therefore it changes as needed, JW's live and breathe and will die to serve a thing because they equate it with God.

  • SweetBabyCheezits
    SweetBabyCheezits

    IndependentThinker, it sounds to me like you're gonna do great, especially if you already know you're going to college.

    So you haven't talked to your siblings about this yet? Are you close with any of them? How do your parents treat them, considering they're out?

    couldn't understand how jehovah could kill everyone who's not jw, when theres so many other religions who think the same about themselves.

    Yeah, that was a big nail in the coffin for me, too. If you get a chance, go check out an ex-Mormon forum sometime. The similarities are amazing.

  • diamondiiz
    diamondiiz

    BTW, just wanted to add, maybe you can read Combating Cult Mind Control or download the shortened mp3 version that you can find on the net. (I'm not sure if that's a legal copy or not) It doesn't deal with Witnesses at all but it deals with other cults but when you read/listen to it you will be surprised how many similarities watchtower has with other cults. I know, word cult seems very unreal at your stage, and it takes a while to realize that's what we've all been involved in and that's also why it takes so long for many to get over it. Some here lost their entire families who have shunned them for years including parent/child shunning because of the cult.

    Another thing, the people Watchtower labels "worldlies" is derogatory because when you get to know them as you had, many are more normal than witnesses on many levels. True friends that are non-JW are real friends where you can discuss anything and you can state your opinion without fear. Witnesses as a general rule are an illusion of a friend. You know, you can't tell them what you learned or they will report you, you can't state your doubts openly because you will be accused of apostasy. If you leave wts you will be shunned by your closest friends and even possibly your own family. As I said, this is a general rule but there are exceptions to this. Ask yourself would you have shunned your friends if they were df? How will your JW family deal with you if they find out you no longer believe the party line(if that's where you end up in the end). While there are many good people trapped inside the watchtower, their personalities reflect the cult mindset and they put that first and above all. People in the world don't understand WTS and view it as just another religion with different beliefs but you know quite well that's not so. You know that you seeing a non-JW girl is breaking the wts guidelines and you could be marked or even df if any news of "brazen" conduct gets to be heard by your elders. She doesn't understand your world and how her relationship with a witness may affect her or you in the end. You will find experiences of grandparents shunning the kids because the exJW is shunned(how do you explain that to a wife/girlfriend or your own child about grandparents not wanting anything to do with them). Just something to think about.

    You will find it almost impossible to reason with witnesses on anything that reflects badly on the watchtower, so be very very careful as you go forth. You know their typical nonsense will be, Satan is trying to get you away from serving Jehovah or the world has weakened you or any other nonsense as that. If you refer to actual watchtower publication for proof of what you read here or any other site, please read the context so that you know that it is not the "apostates" who are deceiving you or twisting the meaning but it is the watchtower who has kept you in darkness.

    Knowledge is power, research and learn all you can, and take your time do so. You may want to clear the cookies and history on you computer if your family is known to spy on your internet activity.

  • Cadellin
    Cadellin

    Wannabefree makes an important point. This seems to be the nature of large corporations. After a time, esp. after they acquire power and a corporate "brand" or identity, they cease being a means to an end and start being the end in and of themselves.

    You might want to try analysing WT study articles and swapping "God's Organization" for "Jehovah" or "God" and visa versa (in your mind, of course) and see how the sentences basically don't change meaning.

  • independenthinker
    independenthinker

    undercover, thanks for the video. so true. anything that has jon hamm in it gets my vote too!

    sorry if im not replying to everone, im typing on my ps3, takes ages.

    blond moment, im going through that process now, distinguishing jehovah from 8 old men. the ironic thing is i felt so guilty cause of my relationship i had stopped praying, not my praying and bible reading is a bigger part then ever!

    to be honest, i think my questioning was inevitable. im not like the other youths, who grew up in a bubble, and cant think for themselves. my parents are lenient, and to quote my mother "it doesn't matter where you go, what you do, as long as you serve god" she also told me not to think things because people tell me to, or be a jw because of people. as well, my experiences with other youths have been . . dull. theyre so protected! ive never had jw friends, and always felt lonely, especially at conventions. :(

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