The wonders of God's creation - Example 1, the tsetse fly

by jambon1 319 Replies latest jw friends

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  sabastious

  Stirs up thoughts that make me wonder if you coming here wasn't that all good for you.

  The wonder of your wondering is wondrous.

  Where I don't follow you are the points where you seem to abandon those rules. As little boys, my brothers and I would sometimes put a black widow and a scorpion or a scorpion and a praying mantis in the same jar. A fight to the death would break out even before we had the lid screwed shut. I suppose we could have argued that all we did was put the potato(s) in the oven and set the knobs, but even as children, we knew that would have been a big fat lie. We were responsible for the situation we manufactured as is God if he exists.

  TD, I thank you for your candor. Your analogy is facinating. However I don't believe it should be correlated with my baked potato analogy. The baked potato implies a cook which is a skilled position. You and your friend putting bugs in a jar was not skilled like the cook. If you, however, had done this fight thousands of times with thousands of bugs you and your friend would know a thing or two about what was going to happen before you even started a new fight. You would be their gods.

  I believe in the law of responsibility. Religion and Government could not exist without it being in place. Credit and Blame are components of the law of responsibility. We are the map makers of our existence and we have not completely charted this law yet. This is because it is a metaphysical law, not a physical law. Metaphysics are extremely tricky to even explain what they are let alone chart it like a map. We chart physics first.

  -Sab
• 

  ziddina

  "Astronomers now find they have painted themselves into a corner because they have proven, by their own methods, that the world began abruptly in an act of creation to which you can trace the seeds of every star, every planet, every living thing in this cosmos and on the earth...." Vidgun, post #383, page #14

  No.

  Hubby subscribes to "Sky and Telescope" - the paper version, and I'm subscribed to the online version. He/we also subscribe to: "Scientific American", "National Geographic", "Smithsonian", and in addition, we have numerous books on various scientific subjects.

  NOWHERE in any of these magazines or books does one find any semblance of Vidgun's statement. There IS NO "painted themselves into a corner", because the world DID NOT BEGIN ABRUPTLY IN AN ACT OF "CREATION"...

  Sheesh. First Sabastious and now Vidgun...

  SAbastious... Now is the time for you to answer that question that you've avoided for the last 15 pages....

  "And while we're at it, you still - STILL - haven't answered my question that I first asked on page 7...

  "And you are aware of the fact that the earth "didn't start out with 'land and sea'...", are you?? Well, then what DID it start out with - for the first THREE BILLION YEARS or so, while we're at it...??"

  Well?

  And the answer is?..." Zid, page 8, post #9694
• 

  ziddina

  "The video starts out with "Do you believe in Zeus" of which the answer given is "no." However I would reply, "yes I do believe in Zeus" which would make my conversation go a very different direction. ..." Sab, above

  Oh, really???? []

  So you think you believe in Zeus, eh, Sabastious?

  Well then, describe "his" godly attributes, "his" position on "Mount Olympus", "his" philosophical attitudes and beliefs, and how ancient Greek worshippers of "Zeus" perceived "his" commands for them....
• 

  sabastious

  So you think you believe in Zeus, eh, Sabastious?

  My belief in him may differ from what people who actually believe in him (which is not you) believe. I would love to find someone who actually believes in Zeus, like me, and run my ideas by that person. Not an atheist who's studied what they refer to as delusional thinking or something along those lines.

  -Sab
• 

  sabastious

  "And you are aware of the fact that the earth "didn't start out with 'land and sea'...", are you?? Well, then what DID it start out with - for the first THREE BILLION YEARS or so, while we're at it...??"

  The way I would explain it is that a god, little g at the very least but probably big G, caused the events needed to create the planet. Look up the definition of Titan.

  -Sab
• 

  TD

  The baked potato implies a cook which is a skilled position. You and your friend putting bugs in a jar was not skilled like the cook. If you, however, had done this fight thousands of times with thousands of bugs you and your friend would know a thing or two about what was going to happen before you even started a new fight. You would be their gods.

  Although the arthropods I mentioned don't usually interact a whole lot in the wild, they are mortal enemies and we absolutely knew this. Blood thirsty little boys as gods is a disturbing thought:

  
• 

  sabastious

  Although the arthropods I mentioned don't usually interact a whole lot in the wild, they are mortal enemies and we absolutely knew this. Blood thirsty little boys as gods is a disturbing thought:

  I have often pondered about the subject of malevolent gods. While not beyond imagination I live in a time where it's very concrete to me that life is not a construct, but a formation. So, in this universe where things form the gods themselves would be formations also. It's not beyond logic to say that a higher form used to be a lesser form. We have lots of stories in our human lore that indicate human transcendence into deity.

  Now, it's important to have a One True God conernstone. A referee, at the very least, if you will in any God framework. This was logic that Abram came up with an extremely long time ago (whoever the hell he actually was). When you have more than one God you have to have the strongest god. In any mythology that was worth anything to human history even pantheons have a lead god. Not necessarily because they have powers to control everything, but rather the strongest power. Implying that a test has already occured and a victor crowned.

  Eventually people starting thinking of where the strongest god derives it's power from and they always seem to end up with some sort of True Source theory. It's always an intelligent will rather than a classical consciousness. Darkness will be what has chosen to oppose that will, whatever that may be.

  There is definitely malevolent forces that are complementary to the benevolent. I don't think it's odd to say that darkness may translate through the worlds woes, even if a theory. But I don't really question their existence. Righteousness is hard work and so there is always going to be forces of evil that are willing to cut corners at the cost of the people around them.

  There are lots of ancient god theories that allot for what is called a "Trickster God." This theme makes sense to me because it explains people reporting their books flying around their library or thinking they are speaking to their great aunt they never really had.

  However the widespread destruction that human children have inflicted upon the ants just doesn't compare what, in general, religion says the spirit realm is for. The One True God theoretically could pull the plug at any time and start over. But he may have become accustomed to at least some of what has formed. Interestingly we have stories of both Abraham and Moses exhibiting this very trait and were said to be made in the image of the One True God.

  -Sab
• 

  cofty

  Sab here are just a very few examples of the sort of vacuous deepitys that you have produced in this thread.

  The problem of induction is the problem of imagination. But I don't call it a problem, I call it purposeful.

  all energy is working towards a singular goal and therefore all energy is just. But that doesn't mean we just sit back and watch, we have to expend the energy.

  Junk DNA ties us to all types of animals, so naturally we are going to see similarities in mysterious ways.

  I live in a time where it's very concrete to me that life is not a construct, but a formation.

  Do you see why we get frustrated?
• 

  cantleave

  vacuous deepitys
• 

  sabastious

  Do you see why we get frustrated?

  Deepity doesn't even have it's own wikipedia page. You should start one and use my quotes as examples. Maybe you and Daniel Dennett could put me in a cage and and find a cure for my vacuous behaviors.

  An interesting study was told by a therapist I used to have. She said in Scandinavia their was an experimental procedure where they took a trauma victim who showed signs of untreatable depression and put them in a room with beautiful bouquets of flowers. It was a small room, maybe 12 by 12, but it was filled with extremely colourful living things. The subject was then given LSD and they studied by camera and two way mirror. Amazingly, they had success in treating PTSD victims that had been deemed untreatable. The subjects reported seeing the flowers in the room and realizing that they were made of the same stuff that made them. They then could no longer hate themselves because that would mean they had to hate the flower too. After the effects wore off the depression would forever lift.

  -Sab