2005 - The year the Society began its decline (without anyone noticing)!

by cedars 112 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  ziddina

  Bumping the thread again...
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  stuckinamovement

  This is undeniably a great thread. Several have said that the proceeds from the sale of the Brooklyn properties will last the Society for decades. I disagree. They are looking at a large building project in upstate New York (Warwick and Ramapo) that needs a large amount of capital, they still have as many C/O's and D/O's still operating, many of them with health problems, they still have missionaries and special pioneers that they are paying for. They also still have 98 Branches still operating with the associated staff and costs.

  Add to the above the settlements for pedophile cases or other liabilities, the loss of revenue from the governmental banning of the work in Russia and Eastern Bloc nations, and finally the increased costs for printing of literature that no one reads. All of these things take an incredible amount of money.

  At this rate they will continue to scale back operations in a desperate attempt to stop the financial hemmoraging. I think they see the writing on the wall. Look for more changes to printing operations and personnel and significant doctrinal adjustments as 2014 approaches.

  "Brothers and Sisters, are we not glad to be eyewitnesses to the prohecy that is mentioned in Isaiah, where Jehovah promised that he "would speed it up in his own time". Truly things are now speeding ahead to the glorious finale soon to come. (wait for applause to end)

  SIAM
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  erbie

  Well folks, for generations (literal ones, not pretend, made up ones) they have been telling us that they are the only religion that preaches the good news.

  If what is discussed in this thread is true then that day has come because the WTBT$'$ demise really is GOOD NEWS!!!

  Luvin it.
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  TheListener

  Great thread.

  When I was still in I remember thinking the WTS was a very professional and efficient organization. I remember stories of other companies using the WTS as a role model. We had quality audio, quality dvds, quality publications, and our branch offices had all the up to date technology. We even invented MEPS (I have no idea if others use it or even if the WTS still uses it).

  What I see today, through glasses of skepticism, is an organization with the shine wore off. An organization going through the motions. I believe others have stated this as well.

  I have a spouse who is an active devout witness. I have never heard her or any other witness friend she has ever state anything negative about the organization or its cost cutting policies. However, they do all seem truly excited when there is less of something (like one less meeting and less magazines and books to read).

  And from my perspective all witnesses seem to be so busy they can't see straight, so stressed out they can't think straight and so wore out they have every odd medical disease in the book. There must be something to that.
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  life is to short

  The Listener
  You are so right about them being excited when things are slowing down. To me it is just mind boggling how they do the mental gymnastics to think the way the do. But I guess I did the same thing when I was still believing.

  You are also so right about them being so stressed out that they can not think straight. Everyone that I know who is a JW is a ticking time bomb of stress. I went to the Memorial this year, they combined it with three halls and I know most of the old times having been born into the religion. What shocked me the most was how stressed everyone clearly looked. Some of them I have not seen in years and the way the looked so worn out and just tired was very easy to see on their faces. It was not appealing for someone there for the first time. If I had been a new person just coming to a meeting for the first time I would clearly be wondering what joy in life any of these people have in this religion. Also there were so many mentally ill about half of them had clear mental problem. It seemed like most of the studies that had come were very, very mentally ill. Is this really who they want to come into their religion, all these mentally ill ones. I truly think that having such a high amount of mentall ill will cost them money if for no other reason then running the sane ones if there are any sane JW's left into the ground and buring them out so that they feel they have given their money to take care of the mentally and have nothing left to put in the box. I know when my husband was an elder I gave or was I should say was forced sometimes to give to the free loaders in the hall and I never but money in the box when this happened as I felt I was giving all I could to drive and crazies to the meetings and in service and paying for dippers, coffee breaks etc.

  I truly hope that we are seeing an end to this religion.

  LITS
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  cedars

  diamondiiz - yours is an interesting perspective, which interprets the Society's motives for downsizing based on whether it is (1) a religiously-oriented or (2) business-oriented organization. I don't think it's a simple categorization - I suspect it's a bit of both. Yes, the corporate element is undeniable, but I am of the opinion that many of the hierachy who are pivotal in the decision-making have bought into their own hype, and take decisions based on misguided religious motives. Yes, there are bound to be the more cynical kingpins/advisors who know it's all a sham and decide accordingly, but I honestly think many on the Governing Body believe in preserving their religious heritage as a divinely appointed organization. They're therefore juggling the dilemma of (1) reducing overheads to keep the organization running in the face of financial hardship, and (2) not wanting to let the ordinary publishers know of this hardship in case these become "discouraged". I can imagine this being their thought process in GB meetings, i.e. "we don't need to concern the brothers with this, it will only lead to discouragement, Jehovah will provide, let's simplify....."

  uninformed - thanks for your personal perspective on the religious decline of the WT. As I've said to others, the factors causing decline have been in evidence for some time as you yourself can attest, but the operational downsizing has only recently become apparent. In other words, the storm has been brewing for a while, but only recently have the roof-tiles started to blow off (i.e. external evidence). I do appreciate your candid personal account, and for your perseverance in posting it! Like many, you have certainly endured more than your fair share of frustration, heartache and ruined potential at the hands of this horrid organization. It's a shame there is no obvious legal recourse for the impact this has had on your life, both financially and emotionally.

  stuckinamovement - I couldn't agree with you more. I too get the feeling that the changes / adjustments / new understandings / downsizing will intensify over the next few years. It will be fascinating to see how it all turns out. And here on JWN, we get a grandstand view of the chaos unfolding! (evil laugh) Popcorn, anyone?!

  The Listener - you make some excellent observations. I too was brought up to believe the Society was invincible, and would only go from strength to strength. Then around 2005 things started to be announced that made no sense, and you explained it away by assuming it was due to the nearness of Armageddon, etc. However, seven years later and there's no fire and brimstone. Instead there's yet more downscaling, firesales and controversy. It's amazing what you see when you take the tinted spectacles off. You also offer a fair analysis of the bizarre way in which Witnesses now embrace ANY announcement, whether positive or negative, as though it is evidence of divine backing. Critical thinking skills have been completely obliterated. Sheer madness.

  life is too short - we had a good thread not too long ago about madness, or the number of "unhinged" people in the organization. My own feeling is that the communal togetherness and enforced friendship offered by affiliation with Jehovah's Witnesses attracts a good number of mentally imbalanced people who would struggle to make friends in any other less welcoming faith or community. However, it wouldn't surprise me if the stresses and strains of continually chasing one's tail are beginning to show on even the more mentally-bouyant publishers. Much is asked of them by the Society, with little or nothing in return.

  Cedars
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  Marvin Shilmer

  Cedars,

  Thanks for starting this fantastic discussion.

  Brant,

  I recall those letters of yours. So many owe you such a debt of gratitude!

  Also, you sharing your life experience to a helpful end makes that life experience very valuable.

  Thanks again!

  Marvin Shilmer
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  Glander

  This is a 'must read' thread. Thanks, Cedars, for all the effort. It is a very clear and honest perspective of the Watchtower org. today and how it arrived here over the last 30 years.

  Brant - your personal journey is similar to mine in the decription of the effect over time of the orgs. contradictory and confusing changes to what we thought was supposed to be the 'truth'.
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  Acluetofindtheuser

  Hi Cedars. Thanks for presenting your observations. I have a couple of questions for you. Do you believe the Society had Jehovah's backing sometime before 1975? Do you believe they are playing the part of the evil slave now?

  I've been in the organization all my life. I've seen a number of friends leave the faith in some sort of fading fashion. I continue to stay because it gives me structure and hope. I feel Jehovah and Jesus are still watching over earth's affairs.

  There is one major element missing from the organization now. It's the constant flow of new light they used to have in the past, such as the content in the Photo Drama of Creation as seen in the Scenario book. It was all highly speculative but it was very cool none the less. The excitement level has fizzled out with modern publications. They just seem to be recycling old topics, but I still enjoy the NatGeo style Awakes. When we received last years convention invitations everyone was so excited about the question mark on the toes of the statue, even the elders. It was kind of a buzz-kill when they announced what it meant at the convention. It was so-so new/old light.

  If the society is looking for doctrinal changes in the future, to reactivate new zeal, I've got a few up my sleeve that would blow their pants off. Old publications of the society have driven me on this quest, along with my out-of-box thinking mentality. I wish we could express ourselves freely just as Charles R. did back in the day without fear. I don't mention my ideas to anyone because they would bring up the "voice of strangers" card I believe. I just don't want to lose my structure and friends right now.

  Is reproof always expected if you bring up something new? Is it a form of presumptuousness?
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  cedars

  Hello Acluetofindtheuser, thanks for your message! I'll try to answer your questions...

  I can understand and sympathize with your view that the Society is still worthy of your time and efforts even though you say it no longer has God's backing. Many, like you, cling to the organization in the belief that it is the only source of "structure and hope" in their lives, regardless of whether it is really "the truth" or not. I have a friend who is an elder, and he tried to convince me to stay once he heard I was inactive. He told me that even if it wasn't the truth, he would still want to stay on account of the "lifestyle" he enjoys as a Witness.

  This attitude strikes me as the exact opposite of the "grass is greener on the other side" approach. It reminds me of the sort of institutionalization experienced by prison inmates, as depicted in the film The Shawshank Redemption. An older inmate is released and commits suicide because he cannot cope without the order and routine that prison life gave him. However, there is life beyond the organization, I can assure you. So-called "worldly people" are not as evil and mischievous as they are depicted in Society literature and videos. You will find that many are more kind and sincere than the brothers you mingle with at the hall. Furthermore, their love and friendship is unconditional - i.e. it won't be withdrawn if they find out you don't share the same beliefs as them. This is far from the case with regular Witnesses, as I have found out myself (even though I'm not disfellowshipped).

  I would urge you to undertake a more thorough and impartial study of the Society's early history - especially the literature that was produced around the period of 1919 when Christ supposedly selected the Bible Students as his earthly congregation. A poster on this forum, Alfred, recently published a summary of some of the strange teachings in the book The Finished Mystery, which was published in 1917 and was in wide circulation throughout 1918/1919. I would recommend you read his article and check the list for yourself (you can download a copy of the book if you don't already have one). You will find that the teachings and prophetic understandings of the bible students were so WAY off the mark, it's almost completely inconceivable that Christ could have selected them based on the "food" they were distributing at that time.

  I have also recently completed a new article on the history of racism in the Society's literature. It's now pending approval, but it will hopefully be released on www.insidethewatchtower.com shortly. The article lists the many quotes contained in magazine articles during both Russell and Rutherford's presidencies that were extremely offensive from a racial standpoint. Blacks are described as a "race of servants", and the book "Uncle Tom's Cabin" (which helped to end slavery) is branded "the work of Satan". Obviously, much has changed since then, and the organization is now completely free from racist ideology. However, it hasn't always been this way - certainly not at the time when Christ supposedly selected the "Slave Class". Furthermore, the Society lacks the candor and humility to admit that they once propounded discriminatory views - even hypocritically attacking other religions for their racial track record.

  As far as "new light" is concerned, I would urge you to closely examine this teaching of the Society's in particular. Look up the three scriptures that are repeatedly used by the Society to justify this teaching. You will find that none of them support the concept as defined in the publications. Put simply, you will find no scripture that describes a scenario in which God's holy spirit would knowingly convey false information to his servants as a "makeweight" until accurate information is shared at a later date. If God is a "God of Truth", then the very idea is actually blasphemous.

  If you haven't already gathered, I believe very strongly that the Society never had God's blessing, even before 1975. This has been my conclusion after carefully weighing the vast amount of information on the Society that is available online, including the excellent articles on jwfacts.com

  I'd strongly recommend that you undertake a similar thorough study, and keep an open mind!

  Cedars