2005 - The year the Society began its decline (without anyone noticing)!

by cedars 112 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  steve2

  It's understandable that, when a religion so thoroughly shapes your thinking and you then discover it is not all it claims to be, part of you will be inclined to think that at least some of it must still be true or that perhaps it was once on the right path but has since deviated.

  But, as painful as it is, it represents little more than a form of desperate wishful thinking and denial, like clinging to a sinking ship because there appears to be nothing else to cling to.

  Over time and with a willingness to keep checking things out you'll come to a very painful but ultimately healthy realization that once one part of the house of cards collapses it's a signal that the whole lot is about to collapse. When it comes to such houses, it is kind of wrong headed to hope that part of it will stay standing when the evidence suggests otherwise.
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  Acluetofindtheuser

  Thanks guys for the words of wisdom and links for study.

  Funny you mention the society as a sort of institutionalized experience. A witness friend of mine who toured bethel a number of years ago told me he enjoyed seeing the organization at work but could not see himself there because of it being fashioned after an institution. He is still a happy witness but wants to be one under his own roof.

  Never had the chance to read The Finished Mystery online. I always wanted to do that. I would prefer skimming over the material before looking at Alfred's summary. I don't want to be biased yet.

  A race of servants, sounds like the teaching the Mormons used to have before it was deemed evil. The older white generation (in their 90s) still refer to African Americans as colored. Its hard to train an old dog new tricks.

  What are the three scriptures pertaining to new light you mentioned? I forgot them.

  It know it can be frustrating when new light reveals a misunderstood bible passage, such as the generation issue. Recently I read an article in the WT that said the opposite of one that was published in the 70's. I was kind of angry because I liked the writer's concept from the 70's.

  I believe Jehovah is still with the organization but I think he is not controlling every affair. I believe the holy spirit only acts when the extra ordinary calls for it. As seen from this board it looks like holy spirit has no part in appointing MS and Elders. The holy spirit wrote the qualifications in the bible so it would seem the holy spirit in essence appoints them because they are following the written word. There was a situation once where I observed a Memorial evening fiasco for two congregations were the caretaker forgot to open the rented facility. The two congregations had to squeeze together at the Hall for a super late Memorial observance. Holy spirit did not motivate the caretaker to get off his butt. God has bigger fish to fry in the universe. I think I experienced it once in my life. The experience could have been a coincidence but it was a million to one shot.

  Israel and Judah sinned against God many times but he still kept up with them because he staked claim on their family line. That could be true today. The leadership can make God happy one day and mad the other because it has happened before. God can bring discipline on his chosen organization if they are not doing as he pleases. If the society goes into a decline as you mentioned it could make the leaders feel as if Jehovah removed his blessing from them. They might repent and try to figure out why they caused so many to turn away in the developed countries. It might be said that it lacks luster.

  I wouldn't be here if I didn't have an open mind. I think my mind opened up about 15 years ago when I started to ponder on things in the bible the society had no comment on. There was an Oct. 15, 2011 Watchtower (study edition) 'questions from readers' on that subject. They said they wouldn't have the answers to these questions but said we should let the bible answer for itself. It has in many cases.

  The life in the org has definitely shaped my thinking. I can't imagine what I'd be like if I was never exposed to it from childhood. I do have some regrets with social development due to restricted associations.

  I hope the ship isn't really sinking. If it is, I hope God comes to the rescue at the right time and brings everything out in the open.

  I don't think it will be as a house of cards. It has some good foundation pieces in place. They just need some solid beams added to it.
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  Captain Obvious

  Sorry bud, but as you continue reading and learning, there is only one way for the house of cards to fall. I can tell from your writing style that you are still a believer...

  Try this. Have you ever noticed how witnesses always seem to think most scriptures are talking about ministry or the new system or how tough it is in this system? Forget all of that. Read scriptures that you have read a million times like Matt:23-24 or Daniel ch. 4 with a completely OPEN mind. Read from an objective viewpoint, not trying to apply a scripture, but to understand what it really says. Try to understand what the writer was trying to say to people IN THEIR TIME. The bible wasn't written so only people 2000+ years later would understand. You will quickly see what I am talking about. You will find that Daniel 4 had its fulfillment right there in that chapter. You will find that there is NO reason to believe that Jesus' parables were really prophecies about the governing body or "faithful slave". It will blow your mind. Plain and simple.

  Enjoy
• 

  cedars

  Acluetofindtheuser

  As you say yourself, you do still seem to believe that God has a hand in the organization - even though the reasons for this are shaky at best, and you've seen for yourself how this hand "deserts" the organization at crucial moments. I've started to write a 4-part essay on the 4 main arguments used by the Society as to why they enjoy God's blessing.

  These are:

  1. "Wondrous expansion is now taking place"
  2. The love shown between brothers of all races
  3. The idea that JWs are the only ones preaching worldwide
  4. The idea that Christ selected the Bible Students in 1919

  (If there are any other reasons, please let me know what these are!)

  My first article, on the following link, is already online:

  http://jwsurvey.org/cedars-blog/under-the-microscope-the-watch-tower-societys-claims-to-divine-direction-part-1

  I began working on the second part of the essay when I got side-tracked by the issue of race. I found there was so much offensive material in the early Watchtower publications that it deserved an article all of its own. This will should be released in the next 24 hours on the following website:

  http://www.insidethewatchtower.com

  Due to the age of some of the quotes, I've actually shown copies of the original printed text to prove that I'm not mis-quoting the Society.

  As regards "increasing light", there are three scriptures commonly used by the Society to support this. These are:

  • Proverbs 4:18
  • Daniel 12:3,4
  • 2 Peter 1:19

  Proverbs 4:18 speaks of the "path of the righteous one" in comparison with that of the wicked one, and how god favors it. Nowhere does it even mention the words "knowledge" or "understanding". The scripture in Daniel speaks of people "roving about" and true knowledge becoming abundant. It certainly doesn't suggest that God would sanction false knowledge to be published under his guidance during this "roving" process. 2 Peter describes the prophetic word as a "lamp shining in a dark place", but the light doesn't increase or decrease, it stays the same. There's no dimmer switch! If you read and dwell on all these scriptures, you'll realize that none of them describe the principle of "increasing light" as propounded by the organization. The one most often used by the Society, Proverbs 4:18, has nothing to do with knowledge whatsoever!!

  Instead, what you find in the bible is a pattern of truthful instructions being passed on to God's servants which they can then act upon. This process is so constant and unshakeable, that one can recognize false prophets because they foretell something and it doesn't come to pass. If you read the criteria for a false prophet as laid out in Deuteronomy 13:1-4; 18:20-22, you would find eerily disturbing parallels with how the Society presents its information. We've had people on this forum recently claiming that the Society DOESN'T call itself a prophet, but for all intent and purposes, this is exactly how it conveys its messages (foretelling future events in Jehovah's name). Furthermore, if you check your Revelation Climax book pages 165-169 you'll see that the Society declares itself to be the "two witnesses" or "two prophets" foretold in Revelation for the last days.

  I'm pleased that you have resolved to check the Finished Mystery book for yourself. After browsing through it and finding out whether Alfred's observations are accurate, you would do well to do a search for references to "Finished Mystery" on your Watchtower Library CD-ROM. In particular, check out the references to this publication in the Revelation Climax book and the amount of significance that the Society attaches to its publication. You will find a certain irony, because a book described by the Society as "unsatisfactory as an explanation of Revelation" is said to have actually FULFILLED parts of Revelation, including the prophecy of the two witnesses! Does that make sense to you?

  Anyway, you have more than enough things to research. Well done for keeping an open mind. Please don't be afraid to visit websites like jwfacts. Contrary to what you've been told, you won't get struck down by lightning for doing so. Besides, if God is a God of truth, then he will want you to know the facts, and the facts will speak for themselves.

  Cedars
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  steve2

  Hi there Acluetofindtheuser, many thanks for your responses. I do understand where you are coming from. Good on you for remaining open-minded to what others are saying. The most repsectful thing we can do in return is accept you right where you are.

  You are a credit to your beliefs because this site has often attracted defenders of the organization who have (sometimes unwittingly, other times deliberately) become extremely judgmental, reactive and goading about what they've read here. They fire off judgements and invective and invoke all manner of "Scriptural" threats. By healthy contrast, you are interested in what others have to say, nonjudgemental, and express your views respectfully.

  As you say, you realized about 15 years ago not everything in the organization was what it appeared to be. I like your very considered and very fair-minded approach.

  In life, whether we're still a JW, or ex-JW, or friend or family of JWs or never-been-a-JW, each one of us proceeds at a pace we are individually comfortable with, using a framework that helps us make sense of what we have found and are yet to find. I do hope you keep posting and contributing your views - what I like most about this forum is it providing a safe venue for all shades of belief and disbelief being able to express and exhange views - a rarity for many of us raised in the organization!
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  Acluetofindtheuser

  Hi Steve. Thanks for your kind reply. It means a lot to me. I was kind of worried I might get sarcastic responses to my posts.

  I came to this site because this is the only place I can discuss deep issues I can't discuss at the Hall without being taken to the back room. I've signed onto other discussion forums to discuss these matters but no one can relate to me because they don't have a witness background. One close friend of mine a while back told me to write to the society about some of these concepts. I told him I would never do that because it did not feel right. That feeling was confirmed when I saw that recent thread saying that writing to the society only brings trouble for yourself.

  Thanks for listening.
• 

  steve2

  I told him I would never do that because it did not feel right. That feeling was confirmed when I saw that recent thread saying that writing to the society only brings trouble for yourself.

  Thanks for listening.

  You're right: I've heard of cases where the well-intentioned person has written to the Society in good faith and suddenly been exposed to their local elders who have not been at all sympathetic about the matters raised in the letter. The letter writer is now cast as a trouble-maker when that was the farthest thing from their intention or desire.

  You'll see that there are a variety of views on this forum - which is what can be expected as people do their best to work through their concerns and worries. So-called "unity" is often a hallmark of authoritarianism not of people who genuniely quest for what is "true" and need time and knowledge to think things through.
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  pepperheart

  this is a really good thread to read
  
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  skepticSam

  Do we have solid evidence the Organization is dropping off attendance wise vs just consolidating operations and eliminating redundancies(JW Missionaries, Bethel Workers, District Overseers) like all the Big Companies did after the Dot.com Implosion, Banking Meltdown and more "Right Sizing" efforts done by professional enterprises. The Watchtower is usually joining the paradigm as another one begins, that's how they operate!

  What proof do we have to demonstrate their loosing their foothold, not just cutting costs and eliminating their free help, you know you have problems when your asking free labor to leave. They are not growing, in this Economy where signs of growth are taking place, they are downsizing and consolidating all their assets so the Old Men of Bethel have over $2 Billion in assets to enjoy the 21st Century with!
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  JWdaughter

  Update:

  2011 there were 98 branch offices. In the 2015 yearbook we are told there are now 90.