If Einstein were alive today he'd condemn the militant atheists for sure.
WTF is a militant atheist? You are spouting copious quantities of BS again Sab.
Why has Andrew Sh not answered my response to his ridiculous post?
Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong?
by cantleave 834 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
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cantleave
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sabastious
"I am a deeply religious nonbeliever. This is a somewhat new kind of religion. I have never imputed to Nature a purpose or a goal, or anything that could be understood as anthropomorphic. What I see in Nature is a magnificent structure that we can comprehend only very imperfectly and that must fill a thinking person with a feeling of humility. This is a genuinely religious feeling that has nothing to do with mysticism. The idea of a personal God is quite alien to me and seems even naive."
Huh, I wonder why he would use a CAPITAL N with the word nature? What do deist's believe in how God speaks to mankind? Through his creation. So it's nature that we study and the more we study it the more we learn about God, the caus behind it all. That's deist thinking. They are nonbelievers in all religions and all creeds. They simply, which is why they like it, believe in a force behind all things that will not be discernible.
Deism ( i / ' d i? . ? z ?m / or / ' d e? . ? z ?m / ) is a religious philosophy which holds that reason and observation of the natural world , without the need for organized religion , can determine that the universe is the product of an intelligent creator(s). According to deists, the creator rarely, if ever, either intervenes in human affairs or suspends the natural laws of the universe. Deists typically reject supernatural events such as prophecy and miracles, tending instead to assert that a god (or "the Supreme Architect") does not alter the universe by intervening in it. This idea is also known as the clockwork universe theory, in which a god designs and builds the universe, but steps aside to let it run on its own. Two main forms of deism currently exist: classical deism and modern deism.
-Sab
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Andrew Sh
Tootired2care,
I apologise. I thought better of it and removed it just before the 20 minute deadline, but not, unfortunately, before you had read it. Please pardon me.
In defence of Sab, though, I think he was just saying that Einstein was a believer in the existence of God. After all, it was a phrase he used more than once "God doesn't play dice with the world",
also
"My religiosity consists in a humble admiration of the infinitely superior spirit that reveals itself in the little that we, with our weak and transitory understanding, can comprehend of reality." Albert Einstein: The Human Side, p66 (1981 edition); ( en.wikiquote.org/wiki/albert_Einstein ).
Though that doesn't make Einstein a religious person in the Go to Church 3 times a week sense, it still means he is not an atheist. And the quote I have given again below and posted previously surely proves that Einstein would not agree with the thrust of the video that started this thread. In that sense, surely Einstein is on Sab's side, don't you agree? :-
Post 53 of 57
Since 3/30/2012' "If God created the material world, then shouldn't we hold him responsible for all the miseries and woes of mankind?"
"We could", Einstein answered seriously, "if man hadn't been endowed with a free will. Every action of man is a function of his own or someone else's will. If so many people hadn't submitted their will to that of the Nazi's, there would have been no concentration camps." '
From "Einstein and the Poet: In search of the Cosmic Man" by William Hermanns - (bottom of page 58, top of page 59)
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sabastious
WTF is a militant atheist?
A militant atheist is any atheist that actively works toward a world without God. Even under the guise of reason. The video in the OP is saying that God is a monster, and portrays him as such. They say that because God is who they say he is that the only viable option for mankind is non belief or suffer mental descent into delusion and insanity. Which has been showcased in this thread quite well if I don't say so myself.
-Sab
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ziddina
"For one I am already doing this and second one of the key equations of all science was created by a believer. This means that to reject the idea of God entirely you have to disagree with a fundamental belief of Albert Einstein...." Sab, wandering off into the desert of his own mind, yet again...
Ah, Sab....
Lemme explain something about science and scientists to you....
Science and its established processes are fairly new. When one compares the length of time in which Homo erectus, Homo neanderthal, and Homo sapiens have been practicing some form of spirituality - "religion" - then science is VERY new... Which tends to make it 'suspect', in minds uncomfortable with change.
So, that means that when one looks at scientists who were born before science gained momentum, there is likely to be some tinge of the superstitious past still tainting their thought processes.
You're yammering on about Albert Einstein and claiming that HE came up with "one of the key equations of all science", but you're TOTALLY FORGETTING ABOUT ISAAC NEWTON, who was DEEPLY religious.
AND Isaac Newton came up with discoveries that set the stage for men such as Albert Einstein.
Isaac Newton was a GREAT scientist. HE WAS ALSO A THEIST. Ironically, his SCIENCE is remembered today; his crackpot THEOLOGICAL ARGUMENTS are mostly long forgotten...
Why?
Because Isaac Newton's THEOLOGICAL BELIEFS were a by-product of HIS TIME.
His SCIENCE, however, made giant leaps forward.
Your attempts to use Einstein's somewhat antiquated spiritual concepts - if in fact he DID have such - as a means to coerce ME into "believing" in your fractured and confused version of "god/gods", is tantamount to attempting to push me [as an American] into believing in SLAVERY because Thomas Jefferson and George Washington believed in slavery [as founders of America...]
Time has marched on, and what was a valid belief of yesteryear is today's buffoonery.
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tootired2care
Though that doesn't make Einstein a religious person in the Go to Church 3 times a week sense, it still means he is not an atheist. And the quote I have given again below and posted previously surely proves that Einstein would not agree with the thrust of the video that started this thread. In that sense, surely Einstein is on Sab's side, don't you agree?
Andrew - Apology accepted. No one is arguing that Einstien was an atheist; his position is much more like that of an agnostic (and even that is a stretch). The thrust of the video is commenting on the foolish logic of a diety that the bible conveys to us; which is pretty spot on if you believe the bible and look at the state of the earth and mankind. Einstein commented on the mysteries that he could not explain through the powers of observation that were available to him at the time, and expressed no belief in any god.
Supposition: I have to believe that someone as rational as Einstein would agree that the bibles logic of a diety is something he "could not take seriously". Sab's position if you read back through the threads, is that God is involved in earths affairs now (he will bless the U.S. and we need his blessing). I don't think Einstein would be in that camp; his words and actions showed that he wasn't reliant or interested in praising some diety. He believed us to be on our own in terms of our problems.
Given this - I don't think that would put him in Sab's camp, as Sab's position doesn't match that of even the agnostic.
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Andrew Sh
Re: Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong? posted ~ 12 hours ago (5/9/2012)
Post 53 of 58
Since 3/30/2012' "If God created the material world, then shouldn't we hold him responsible for all the miseries and woes of mankind?"
"We could", Einstein answered seriously, "if man hadn't been endowed with a free will. Every action of man is a function of his own or someone else's will. If so many people hadn't submitted their will to that of the Nazi's, there would have been no concentration camps." '
From "Einstein and the Poet: In search of the Cosmic Man" by William Hermanns - (bottom of page 58, top of page 59)
Game, Set, and Match to Sabastious?
cantleave Re: Christian Apologists - Please Watch This and Tell Us Why it is wrong? posted ~ 5 hours ago (5/9/2012)
Post 9115 of 9117
Since 6/25/2009Andrew Sh, you are saying that god provided man with Free Will and that makes the suffering and evil man's fault.
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Andrew Sh
Cantleave,
I haven't yet tried to answer your question, because it would involve reading through all your page. I only wrote about 6 lines and it seems you didn't bother to read it beyond line 1 and totally got the wrong end of the stick. So, I excused myself from reading your weighty post:-
"Andrew Sh, you are saying that god provided man with Free Will and that makes the suffering and evil man's fault."
Cantleave, I didn't say that, Einstein said it.
And I thought it best to stick to what seemed the main point at the time: whose side would Einstein be on in this debate: and my post seems to clinch it beyond all reasonable doubt.
I will try to reply to your post soon enough though.
Tootired2Care,
Thank you for accepting my apology.
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JonathanH
Newton invented calculus, described gravity, made great strides in optics, and believed in alchemy. Who the fuck cares what einstein thought about deism? Argument from authority is grossly flawed.
Also deism is just poetic atheism. Spinozan deism (what einstein believed) just says that the universe itself is the uncaused cause, it does not in any way suggest that their is some "magical" non natural entity that has any kind of volition or will behind the universe. Not that it matters, because who cares what einstein thinks? He was a great physicist, but he was wrong about alot of things (alot of things in physics too.) Trying to prop up his corpse and say he's on your side is both meaningless and futile. Defend your position on its own merits.
