Please sign the petition to remove tax free status from religious cults that shun!

by garbonzo 99 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  ABibleStudent

  james_woods - Robert, I think your motivation is good - but I was just pointing out why I think this effort is a futile one.

  Why not expand the effort into a petition to tax all religious organizations the same as any other business?

  Hi james_woods, I know that there are lot of obstacles to overcome. Band on the Run pointed out several good obstacles that I am already considered and I know of more, such as Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, a Mormon. My problem is I have to look at myself in the mirror everyday and I do believe in a loving Father in Heaven, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit - not Jehovah as taught by JWs.

  BTW you and botchtowersociety did not write anything offensive in your posts to me. I am only writing this because I did truly read and consider everything that people have posted on threads promoting the White House petition. Your and botchtowersociety's posts did inspire me to write the following FAQ on the Facebook page for the White House Petition:

  "Why should I care about other Americans who are victimized by dangerous cults? I have several reasons. It could have happened to me or someone, who I love. People do not join dangerous cults. Dangerous cults target vulnerable people (i.e., people with few friends, immigrants, strong social ties, children, etc.) to recruit. An organization can slowly transform into a dangerous cult because of changes or turmoil in top management. A member’s social ties with other members of an organization may affect a person’s perceptions until it is too late to leave without severe consequences. Depending on the dangerous cult, some members may be victimized to an extent that places additional burdens on social services and increases government costs."

  Which do you feel would be easier, promoting additional requirements for tax exempt organizations, eliminating tax exemptions for all religious organizations, or replacing the income tax with a national retail sales tax? Answer: fewer people would be against adding requirements for tax exempt organizations. All religions would ban together to fight eliminating tax exemptions for religious organizations. All religions, non-religious tax exempt organizations, tax lawyers, and tax accountants to name a few special interest groups would be against replacing the income tax with a national.

  I personally would prefer a national retail sales tax if it could be slowly phased in so that the economy was not adversely affected by the change. I may not be an accountant nor a lawyer, but I do try to research and realistically evaluate my options before I decide on what to do.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
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  Band on the Run

  May I ask how a VAT was added as a topic in this thread? All lawyers and accountants is a lot of people.

  Whatever.

  I think getting on a TV show and telling people about the shunning, etc. would get you further. Most people have no idea. In fact, I tell people I am opposed to them b/c of the culture of control and overreaching, not doctrine. I mention disfellowshipping to prove my point. People look at me as tho I am from another planet. They never heard of the Witnesses doing. People believe the Amish do it. I describe the details of the shunning. It is so pervasive.

  Why can't they just post an elegant notice on the KH bulletin board that "so and so is no longer a member of Jehovah's Witnesses." They have a right not to associate with people who break their rules.
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  ABibleStudent

  Band on the Run - I'm not certain how many threads are running now. Perhaps my posts are disappearing along the way. What is your aim with your petition? If five million people sign it, what is your goal? You need a Senator or Congressperson willing to introduce a bill, votes, and enough political heft to move any bill forward to the floor of each House. Next, you need to shepherd the bill through a conference committee.

  Congress does not make law. Congress enacts laws. Without the president's signature or a veto override, the bill is not a law. It needs a presidential signature. Next, you must fight off legal challenges to such a bill. The First Amendment is taken very seriously. Remember the Mayflower Pilgrims perilous journey to the new world to have religious freedom.

  We don't have ballot initiatives on the federal level.

  I truly don't mean to be cruel but it boggles my mind. Go for the gusto.

  Hi Band on the Run, My major objectives are to be able to look at myself in the mirror everyday and not be ashamed at who I see, and to educate and raise the awareness level of politicians and Americans about the harm done by dangerous cults (as defined by Steve Hassan). I feel disappointed that politicians are more concerned about talking about victimless issues, such as gay marriages, that is not as important as helping victims of dangerous cults. If the President signs a law that is inspired by this petition, I would probably have a heart attack. Just kidding.

  I am aware of most of the major challanges that need to be overcome before the President would be able to sign a law, so you do not need to continually repeat yourself because I have read, understand, and remember your previous posts. If I choose to continue to promote a White House petition, it is because it is just one part of what I am trying to accomplish.

  Band on the Run - May I ask how a VAT was added as a topic in this thread? All lawyers and accountants is a lot of people.

  You need to read my posts more carefully. I was responding to james_woods' question to me and I wrote "All religions, non-religious tax exempt organizations, tax lawyers, and tax accountants to name a few special interest groups".

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
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  garbonzo

  Charlie Manson would qualify as dangerous. He had no First Amendment right to murder people. Warren Jeffs had no First Amendment right to rape young girls. The Witnesses are not remotely in this category.

  Blood policy? How could you say they are not in the category of Chales Manson, when they have the current bloog policy? IT IS THE SAME THING! I would like to know the reasonings behind anyone thinking otherwise....

  My problem is I have to look at myself in the mirror everyday and I do believe in a loving Father in Heaven, Jesus Christ, and the Holy Spirit - not Jehovah as taught by JWs.

  Do note that most of us here, myself included are atheists, as we believe that is the reasonable course after researching the subject extensively, so do not expect any sympathy from us on that topic of discussion, so no need to preach your beliefs around here.
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  NewChapter

  Blood policy? How could you say they are not in the category of Chales Manson, when they have the current bloog policy? IT IS THE SAME THING! I would like to know the reasonings behind anyone thinking otherwise....

  Policies against birthcontrol and abortion also leads to death. How can you say this is not in the same category as Manson? I know of a woman with one kidney that was warned not to get pregnant. She did, and now she and the fetus are dead. IT IS THE SAME THING! And if not, I would like to know your reasonings . . . .
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  Band on the Run

  It is obvious to me. Witnesses make an individual choice to refuse blood. The ultimate decision belongs to them, not the WT. Just b/c we disagree with it does not give us the right to stop them. I truly don't believe the actual intent of the Witnesses is to kill anyone. The direction causation of a death from refusing blood is not the WT doctrine but the individual actor.

  Sharon Tate and others did not consciously decide to die. Manson and his group took their lives.

  Individual responsibility remains. We live in a marketplace of ideas. Witnesses choose to be Witness. We did not live in compounds. There was interaction with the world. The Nuremberg trials asserted that even tho the Nazis were coercive, individuals had criminal responsibility for their acts.

  I truly believe some people are wearing blinders. All you can see is hatred of the Witnesses. The remedy to the WT problem is one of education. They are not criminals. If someone gave me a gun and told me to shoot someone, I am responsible. It was my choice to listen to them and pull the trigger.

  Curious as to why this stirred up such passions.
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  ABibleStudent

  Band on the Run - I truly believe some people are wearing blinders. All you can see is hatred of the Witnesses. The remedy to the WT problem is one of education. They are not criminals. If someone gave me a gun and told me to shoot someone, I am responsible. It was my choice to listen to them and pull the trigger.

  Curious as to why this stirred up such passions.

  Hi Band on the Run, Why do you feel that people who are for this petition hate the Witnesses? I love JWs and feel that they and their leaders are trapped by doctrines that were started by either WTBTS Presidents Nathan Knorr or Freddie Franz. I love the Constitution and will attempt to follow it as our forefathers intended our government to follow it. Why do you feel that there is only one remedy - your way - to help victims of dangerous cults? This petition does nothing more than ask politicians to add requirements to clearly define public policy for the IRS, so that the IRS can investigate claims by victims. If victim’s claims are true, the IRS can then suspend an organization’s tax exempt status for a minimum of 3 years.

  Hopefully this White House petition will help educate politicians and Americans, and inspire a law to help level the playing field for JWs so that the WTBTS cannot promote shunning and marking to JWs. If JWs feel that the WTBTS is promoting policies that makes them feel intimidated or coerced then those JWs can contact the IRs to help them.

  Do you read and attempt to understand what other posters write before you post? It seems to me that you have a preconceived opinion(s), you like to write that you are attorney to help substantiate your position, and your posts seem to repeat that opinion(s) over and over again like a broken record. You are not a Supreme Court Justice nor a high-level government official, so your opinion on this forum is no better than mine. To me the only good thing about you posting to this thread now is that it keeps this thread at the top of the active thread list. Your initial posts gave me ideas for writing FAQs on the Facebook page for the White House petition, but your posts now are not as useful.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
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  NewChapter

  I think religions that preach hellfire as a penalty for walking away are using coercion and terror to keep adherents bound. Can we add that to the list of things that would lose tax exemption? I've read about exmembers of the Pentacostals, and they have nightmares, phobias, anxiety disorders, and even hallucinations. And while they are not shunned, (officialy) they are told on a regular basis that they will burn forever for leaving. This is quite abusive, and unhealthy for children. They should lose their tax exempt status.

  And to make sure their young ones never, ever leave and have any peace, they make sure to drive the idea of hell home into their hearts. This video was discussed often on their boards as something that still terrorizes them. Should this be tax exempt? Who gets to choose?

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZhJpYzJ8rhM
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  ABibleStudent

  NewChapter - I think religions that preach hellfire as a penalty for walking away are using coercion and terror to keep adherents bound. Can we add that to the list of things that would lose tax exemption?

  Hi NewChapter, Are you kidding? How does a religion preaching hellfire not to leave the religion, have anything to do with requiring that an organization must promote freedom of religion and speech to its members? I feel that you are either not reading and understanding what other posters write about supporting the White House petition, or you are stuck in your own preconceived position about this topic.

  Although I feel you are being sacrastic with your question, I will compliment you on asking a clarifying question.

  Peace be with you and everyone, who you love,

  Robert
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  NewChapter

  I am not being sarcastic! Or is it so easy to dismiss an abuse of a religion that does not stem from JW shunning etc. I was hurt a great deal more by the hellfire teaching than I was by the shunning policy. So if I were in power, and I had the right to choose favorite religions, I'm just saying that any religion that preached hellfire and indoctrinated their children with phobias and anxieties would be thrown out the door.

  The Catholic church would get the thumbs down also, because of their irresponsible, and life threatening doctrines agains birthcontrol and disease control.

  Think about THAT, when you are so anxious to give unprecedented power to others over religions that are not their own.

  NC