The Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil was not just for two people. It was for the entire human race. Adam and Eve did die within the very day of eating from it. A day to God is a thousand years. They both died within the very day, or period of time, of eating from it. This knowledge of good and bad was not immediately experienced by them, but is still being experienced by the entire human race. All humans are now free to partake of either good or bad, and to experience these first hand. It is as if the blue pill and the red pill from the Matrix movie were offered to them. We are not "forced" to do anything as some of the posters on this thread have suggested. Only the people who choose the good part of the the knowledge imparted to them are rewarded.
The true, unsung hero of the Bible....
by Unlearn 267 Replies latest watchtower bible
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sabastious
A day to God is a thousand years.
This is not an adequate explanation for Genesis 2:17.
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die. - KJV
Notice how the NIV renders the verse:
17 but you must not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, for when you eat from it you will certainly die.” - NIV
There is no mention of the concept of a "day of death" in the NIV because they are translating the verse correctly whereas the KJV has an error. I would go as far as to say that the KJV is actually slanted. The purpose of verse 17 (when it was written) is to show the state of lawlessness the only state that exists outside of God. In the beginning there was only one law, but upon breaking the law the state of death is handed back in return. The fruit wasn't poison, the fruit was freedom from God which meant a finite existence and the ability to choose anything you wanted.
You can't just jump to another part of the Bible to explain a detail in beginning of the Bible. The beginning is stand alone and does not require other books for explanation. However, other books do offer insight into the beginning, but the conclusions should be able to be came to just using Genesis. Adam and Eve died and the process of death takes time which is what the message is, not "if God was lying or not." God cannot lie, you need no pretzel explanation, just simple logic.
-Sab
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tec
If you look at the story as just a story, then for Christ's sake (literally!) atleast get the characters right. Satan is the bad guy and it is clearly demonstrated in the Genesis account.
Satan is a liar because he lied in the Garden of Eden which may as well be a holodeck from Star Trek rather than a description of the events that followed the Big Bang. Genesis 1-2 are about the creation of existence, not the creation the universe. Genesis 1 states that the Earth is formless as in without form. So, the setting of the story is not within space and time, but the beginning of space and time. Therefore, when a "cunning serpent" comes waltzing on the stage you don't say it's a serpent from this world. In fact you don't say it's like anything from this world. That would be like a child interpretation. You also don't call who that serpent is speaking to from this world either. You simply call it the beginning. Which is without our rules which have been well established for eons. So established that we are able to study them with great accuracy enabling the human race to shape it's own future.
Well stated. The act of valor as well as the love vs expoitaion also.
I have to say that I agree with Sab that the image of Satan as a freedom fighter seems quite impossible, and illogical. If God were a tyrant and did not want us to have freedom... then we would all be on our knees. We'd even want to be on our knees, if he wanted us to love him and programmed that into us. He would not have allowed us to have freedom to begin with. Adam and Eve would not have had the freedom to choose to eat from the tree. I mean, the very fact that we can NOT believe in God, not obey him, not love him... proves that He has granted us the freedom to do so.
So why would we need a freedom fighter, when we were and are already free?
Peace,
tammy
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tec
You know, Sab... I have the NIV, and I never even picked up on that, lol.
Peace,
tammy
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soft+gentle
sab
Hello everyone, I have returned from out of town. S+G is a sorceress because she knew it was a BBQ without me actually saying it. lmao
I agree that satan is no hero. He has a nihilistic, sneering view of mankind. How can he be a freedom fighter if Adam and Eve experienced a fall after his intervention? He offered a false freedom, one that did not rest real, life enhancing value and one that led to a soulless existence from which humans needed rescuing.
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tootired2care
So why would we need a freedom fighter, when we were and are already free?
Accrding to the bibles narrative, the freedom that exists now does have an expiration date, it's well known and documented as Armageddon, after which every thought will be brought into captivity (Pauls words).
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NewChapter
I'd like to ask someone other than Sab---because I can't follow his posts and he won't give a simple answer----
Where does the idea that God has no beginning come from? Since everything we knew when this god was introduced had a beginning---where did such a concept come from? How was it introduced?
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sabastious
Accrding to the bibles narrative, the freedom that exists now does have an expiration date, it's well known and documented as Armageddon, after which every thought will be brought into captivity (Pauls words).
What is Armageddon in your own words? If you are going to use it as an argument point then you should be able to tell me what it is.
I'd like to ask someone other than Sab---because I can't follow his posts and he won't give a simple answer----
Lol, does this mean it's over between us? SAY IT AINT SO! You ask a complex metaphysical question, but demand a simple physical answer. Wrong approach.
To be honest I really don't get you, NC. Most people I can get in 5 minutes or less, but I could spend 500 hours speaking with you one on one and I wouldn't be closer to understanding you when I started. This is a compliment of sorts because most people are predictable and boring whereas you are not.
You purport that everyone that has experienced something supernatural was really just experiencing something unexplained. I can get behind that as a legitimate idea. However, it seems a double standard to not allow people of faith to use the "unexplained" explanation as well. How did God have no beginning? He just did. That's the simple answer you are looking for, but I'm sure you have heard it a thousand times. You strive to understand what lies beyond your perspective, but yet you slam into a wall with your own non belief.
There is a very specific reason why the Bible has Simon Peter sinking in the water upon losing his faith that he could keep himself up on his own. Jesus said that faith the size of a mustard seed can move mountains. That was not hyperbole or some sort of metaphor. Faith IS physical (possibly very small like the particles of light) and it's connected to light or electromagnetic radiation. You have consciously chosen to have zilch and have gone as far as to wage a war of words against it. Then you complain when someone gives you a complex and incomplete answer to a not well understood phenomenon. God always was, that's just the way it is and always will be. Now, if you want to call our existence His Dream or something like that there's a way to explain why he's not an active character like you are in this story. But that doesn't mean he's not here, it just means he's different.
-Sab
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NewChapter
but I could spend 500 hours speaking with you one on one and I wouldn't be closer to understanding you when I started.
I have no doubt that this is true.
How did God have no beginning? He just did. That's the simple answer you are looking for, but I'm sure you have heard it a thousand times. You strive to understand what lies beyond your perspective, but yet you slam into a wall with your own non belief.
My question is not HOW God can have no beginning---but simply where does the information that he had no beginning come from? Just tell me where you heard it first.
God always was, that's just the way it is and always will be.
Where did you find this information? The I ching? or whatever it's called.
NC
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sabastious
Where did you find this information? The I ching? or whatever it's called.
The I CHING helps you become superior among your contemporaries. It's like a pocket counselor. It doesn't give out information such as the nature of God, that's not it's purpose. I would say I get that kind of information from the Torah which works in tandem with the I CHING. I see now that I did misunderstand your question.
-Sab