where had i used labelling in this thread? are there demons or is there another explanation? i dont know and neither do you or sagan, it's funny how you acuse me of labels when Sagan does just that by generalisations and jumping to conclusions (not for all cases). The title of his book says it all. lets say you are being schooled by a person who believes in demons, does that mean that everything they would school you in science be wrong? because that is what you are applying. isnt this just another generalisation and jumping to conclusions? oops lol where did i write that ocasionaly demons attack chickens with a broom stick? can you at least get what you read right. you dont even know nor understand the theory of falsifibility. i am still looking for an answer and i dont want people to just take my word, as i wrote before parapsychology is intereating, science is interesting but know it all twats are a waste of time.
My demon experience
by SweetBabyCheezits 102 Replies latest jw friends
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SweetBabyCheezits
Joey: where had i used labelling in this thread?
Well not counting the fact that you posted your experience on a demon thread, there was in an old thread where you suggested spirits were the culprit and seemed offended that anyone might question your conclusion. Remember? We've had this discussion before and you shared the paranormal broomstick attack on the chickens anecdote. Here's the link:
http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/beliefs/201345/2/Ghosts-and-Spirits
Joey (at thread cited above): Spirits from dead people is not true, demons can lie and kill you, the same principall applies with the OT food offerings can calm down the demon
Yeah, spirits of dead people - that's ridiculous. What you gotta watch out for is those lying demunz pretending to be dead people, attacking our chickens.
Joey: lets say you are being schooled by a person who believes in demons, does that mean that everything they would school you in science be wrong?
No, but you haven't schooled me in science yet. I was being sarcastic.
where did i write that ocasionaly demons attack chickens with a broom stick?
In your defense, you never said they occasionally attack chickens with brooms. You only said it happened once. I just took the liberty of mocking you.
Joey: The title of his book says it all.
You didn't bother to read past the cover?
Joey: you dont even know nor understand the theory of falsifibility.
Which parts am I confused about? I know your "hypothesis" seemed to be - based on the other thread - that an invisible spirit chased chickens around a yard with a broomstick. And from your response, it doesn't appear to be falsifiable. Otherwise, please tell me the criteria we might measure or conditions we might observe or experiment we might perform that would prove your hypothesis false. Sagan's "dragon in my garage" is a perfect example of an unfalsifiable hypothesis.
Joey: i am still looking for an answer and i dont want people to just take my word,
I, too, don't want people to just take your word.
Joey: as i wrote before parapsychology is intereating, science is interesting
You mean pseudoscience?
but know it all twats are a waste of time.
Wow! That's the first time I've been called a twat. Today. Look, I wouldn't pretend to know what caused you and 15 other people to perceive a broom chasing and beating your chickens. I'm just saying it would be premature and naive to label an unexplained event (or memory of a perception) as paranormal, supernatural, demons, spirits, ghosts, aliens, Kevin Bacon, etc....
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Joey Jo-Jo
Exactly, nowhere in this thread did I speak of demons, you did, I did believe this to be so, the more I looked into it the more I was not sure what it is, many occultists like Alistair Crowly believe that these occurrences are all in your head, the experiences they describe are all vague, I looked into Jung as well, nice try in moving goal post but yes I did say that at first.
As for labeling again look at your hypocrisy, read Karl Popper theory on falsifiability, read science delusion because Sagan and Wiseman are not the only people who write about this, but I do appreciate their efforts at having a stab at an explanation even if they are putting everyone into one basket. Sleep paralyses did explain some experiences that I had.
And you are right they are pseudo, as I wrote hypothesis are not consistent, but there have been some interesting developments.
And again Sagan was naive, maybe not intentional but he did not write that he could be wrong or that he is not aware of all cases, no no no, its either this or it isn't, now put yourself in my shoes and say it was not naive. The fact is sleep paralyses, schizophrenia and other circunstances does not fall into what I had experience because we all had see it at the same, we all new what it was and what it was doing, a broom.
It was not the case of like a group mentality thing, there were no exchange of words like "did you see that!?" or "I think it was this", no we all had our jaws dropped the minute we saw it. Maybe it was wires, nope, we were on a two storie house and we were looking down so we had good view and saw the force, speed and movement of the broom, projected image? nope there was evidence of the broom causing damage.
So do you have an explanation? nope neither do I, so you just proved my point about Sagan, bullshit detector? not always. And again and again, you are the one labelling. not me, and I have every right to call it paranormal as its beyong the scope of scientific analyses.
I wouldn't pretend to know what caused you and 15 other people to perceive a broom chasing and beating your chickens.
But you just did, because its all in that book of yours.
I'm just saying it would be premature and naive to label an unexplained event (or memory of a perception) as paranormal, supernatural, demons, spirits, ghosts, aliens, Kevin Bacon, etc....
So when would it not be premature to label something as paranormal (assuming you know what the word now means)?
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SweetBabyCheezits
Well, Jo-Jo, I see there's no arguing logic with you, even with the aid of a brilliant astrophysicist. (Ol Naive Carl, they called him in college, because he'd fall for anything. What an idiot, haha!) I yield to your superior understanding of science, Jo-jo.
In summary...
- You observed chickens being chased by a bloodthirsty broom at the age of... well that wasn't disclosed... but you saw it with 15 other Jehovah's Witnesses. You have a faultless memory of it.
- You carefully documented the experience, recorded testimony of the witnesses, formulated a hypothesis, undoubtedly with some criteria that might falsify it... except you didn't disclose what that criteria actually was. (But I'm the one who doesn't understand falsifiability.)
- I'm sure you've exhausted every possible natural explanation and you have a mind that's incapable of being tricked, ergo the "paranormal" label is clearly more appropriate than "unexplained".
But as long as we're making unfalsifiable claims - and anything "paranormal" is inherently unfalsifiable, right? - I'm gonna say it was Patrick Swayze.
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still thinking
LOL---Like when i thought I had figured out the secret to flying? That one was so strong that I actually tried to reclaim it and remember when I woke---that's when i realized it was like mario flying when he has a tail. LOL I FELT like I knew it....New Chapter
I was convinced I could fly when I was young, I also thought I had figures out the secret....just goes to show how powerful those episodes and dreams can be.
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Witness My Fury
Talking of brooms.... Listen and weep.
Here's a true 'experience' I've carried with me all my life believing it to have occured as described, but now with my WTS blinkers removed and a whole lot more knowledge can see was just an interupted sleep phase...
When I was small (not sure exactly but probably age 5 -7) I was in my bedroom (hmm bit of a clue there eh?) it was kind of dusk with sun going down... suddenly an upright inverted broom (brush at the top) sped through the room right past me. I know my later (likely faulty) recollections of this event were that is came through the wall (aparition stylie) and left through the closed door in the same manner.
Next thing i'm obviously upset by these proceedings and curl up crying on the bed. Now the frickin large clothes cupboard starts talking to me calling my name and asking "why are you crying?" it does this a couple of times then nothing.... I get up and flee the bedroom even more upset.
Now as I have said, I have carried this experience with me as being a ghostly aparition of a broom and my cupboard talking to me, right up until a few years ago when the penny dropped.
I was mistaken on ALL fronts and now feel a complete idiot for telling people this tale over the years believing it really happened as I imagined it did.
The broom I dont have a specific answer for, but it was likely me waking up from sleep and still in dream phase and seeing shadows on the wall moving, I panicked and started to cry, my eldest brother heard me crying in my room and after calling my name a couple of times asked me why I was crying through the closed door, hearing me go quiet and nothing further he walked away being the typical teenager. In my already panicked frightened state it could ONLY be the cupboard making these utterances... I remember thinking to myself ..How does it know my name? This logic path only confirmed in my tiny brain that it must be the Demunz.
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SweetBabyCheezits
Jo-Jo, I think I found the explanation for your wayward broom.
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PaintedToeNail
Ah yes, sleep paralysis. Very Scary when it happens and you don't know what it is! I read about it years ago, and was relieved to learn that what I was experiencing had a name. Now when it happens, I just talk myself through it. Knowledge is power.
Witness My Fury-When I was really little, I had a dream about a Fisher-Price toy phone talking to me. I have hated those damned little phones ever since. It was very real and for years, I too, thought it really happened!
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hemp lover
NC: " I knew a guy once that was a serious drug addict and had mental illness. One time he was in his garage sniffing starter fluid, and this female apparition appeared out of nowhere and they proceeded to have the best sex ever and nothing in his life has ever come even close before or after. He remembers it quite fondly. Is it kind of like that?"
Yes. But I don't need starter fluid. The other interesting thing (at least for me) is that sleep orgasms all feel the same (amazing, duh), but they're different than any I've ever had whilst awake (also amazing [duh]).
Back to the OP: I'm curious about the x-rated thing, considering you were hanging out with a dude at the time. Not that there's anything wrong with that.
And, in conclusion, my sleep paralysis/demon dreams all stopped, not when I left the JWs, but when I stopped believing in it two years later.
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Joey Jo-Jo
SweetBabyCheezits: lol, I dont recall a broom with arms that used its straws as legs and a giant talking mouse. it was not animated and not on tv.
dogma
