This was my 'Sign'

by MsGrowingGirl20 67 Replies latest jw friends

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  Londo111

  It would be good first to review the October/November 2011 Public edition of the Watchtower to understand the Society's arguments. Of course, I am finding that most Witnesses do not understand even how to do the 7 times calculation...or how to argue for many of the Society's interpretations on matters. For the most part, the "Slave" says it--end of story. Many are no better than some churchgoers I used to talk to at the door who used to tell me, "My preacher says it and that's good enough for me!"

  Once you understand their arguments, then you can read the other side of the matter more effectively. Yes I know some of this might seem like dry history, but the importance of being able to comprehend this cannot be underestimated.

  This is the thread that really helped me: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/215282/1/WT-Nov-1-2011-public-When-Was-Ancient-Jerusalem-Destroyed-Part-2

  Here is a thread of threads: http://www.jehovahs-witness.net/watchtower/bible/222960/1/e2809cWHEN-WAS-ANCIENT-JERUSALEM-DESTROYED-e2809d-Why-does-it-matter-The-Watchtower-October-1-2011-and-November-1-2011
• 

  Knowsnothing

  MsGrowingGirl20, your sign is about as full-proof as a crackhead praying for $20 to buy some crack, and low and behold, he finds $20 tucked away in a drawer.

  Understand that coincidences are a fact of life, and that your "sign" is nothing more. Say you hadn't heard that talk. You might still have been asking for a "sign" a week later. 2 weeks. 3 weeks. FINALLY, a talk comes on, dealing with doubts. Was it 1.) God answering, 2.) your refusal to accept the obvious, 3.) a coincidence?

  Before you come to the conclusion it was God, you have to accept there are other explanations for these types of things, and rather, I bet you that brother giving that talk didn't even address any of the specific doubts you had/have. He may have briefly mentioned them, skimmed over them, told you with a text, doubt it bad, trust in Jehovah, all matters will be resolved, and just waved that magic wand in front of you.

  The doubts don't cease to exist, untill you have addressed them. You might think you can go back, but they will just keep nagging you. You will see the fallacies. Trust me, after ~1 year of leaving the JW's, but then going to KH shunned for the sake of holding the family together, even when I tried to believe, my logic would just cut away at their fallacious logic. Their open-ended questions, vague statements, inconclusive answers, and their classic "wait on Jehovah".

  Put yourself in the shoes of a catholic that hears about all the church corruption, then hears something similar, "wait on God". It's no different. The religion is broken, and it just doesn't want to admit it.
• 

  MsGrowingGirl20

  Thank you all.I feel as though i need a clear head to study this 607 thing. My mind is ot retaining or understanding anything right now...i'll keep trying
• 

  rebel8

  Take as much time as you need to calm your mind so you can best think things through. There's no hurry!
• 

  stillstuckcruz

  As others have stated, your situation and doubts are not to be minimized. They are perfectly understandable and all of us go through those stormy periods of doubts about the Organization. If I allowed every supposed "sign" to convince me that it was indeed a "sign" to convince me that it was "the truth", I would likely believe it. Go through the WT Library and type in the word "doubt" or "doubts" and you will find dozens of references from each year up until today. Sooner or late, the subject is bound to come up. It is the significance that you choose to attach to it that makes the difference.

  Have you ever read Combatting Cult Mind Control by Steven Hassan? He was a member of the Unification church and discussed briefly some "signs" he thought he was feeling. On page 18 he states:

  "After several earnest days of prayer, I recieved what I thought was the "sign". Unable to concentrate on my schoolwork, I was sitting on the edge of my bed. I reached down, picked up one of my philosophy books, and opened it to a paragraph at random, which said that history goes through certain cycles to help human beings evolve to a higher plane. At that moment I thought I had had a spiritual experience. How could I have chanced to open the book to that paragraph? I thought that God was surely signaling me to heed Mr. Miller's lectures. I felt I had to go back and learn more about this movement"

  Sound familiar? He also discusses on page 14 the "sign" he felt he was getting from God to go to one of the movement's "weekend outings". That experience is EERILY reminiscent of your own "sign" including the sudden change in circumstances(Hassan's was a canceled wedding that allowed him to now attend one of the seminars). I have sat in the meeting at times and popped the bible open to random versus(purposfully trying to see how a person could see a "sign") and found it to be very selective. As an excericise, one day just pop your Bible open to a random spot and randomly point to scriptures. You will suprisingly find out just how much application you can make to your life by reflective on the different principles.

  You cannot base this life decision on a whim or "sign". Only hard facts can accomplish that. Have you read both Crisis of Conscience and In Search of Christian Freedom by Ray Franz? The information contained is enough to shake the faith of ANYONE in the organization. Why? Because it is factual and well documented....not the random thoughts of a one-sided individual.

  Never mistake a doubt for something that clearly does not make sense. That is a distinction that was difficult for me for a while. When I discussed my doubts with my mom, she would constantly talk about "doubts"(never the actual issues involved). She said I needed to "wait on Jah" bla bla bla, the things I'm sure you hear often. She would point me to Watchtowers and Bible versus discussing doubts and how you "just need to try harder to understand". The problem was what she was trying to get me to understand. CLEARLY she could not answer my questions logically. The problem is that i CLEARLY see an issue now(such as the faithful and discreet slave, 607, new light, etc) as 2+2=7....it does not work! But my mom wants me to see it as 2+2=4...which will not happen. Pushing something out of your mind or attempting to justify the unjustifiable will not make it right....

  Just my two-cents.

  Stillstuckcruz
• 

  Black Sheep

  Thank you all.I feel as though i need a clear head to study this 607 thing

  That is because the proponents of 607 have to make complicated arguements to distract you from the facts, to confuse you, and to make you feel inadequate. This is where critical thinking skills come in handy, giving you a structured method to evaluate the info and arguements.

  Falsifying 607 is actually very simple. Using a pencil, paper and a calculator, add up the known reigns of the kings using the WTCD, Wiki, your public library, or any reliable source. Because the reigns of these kings are known, any logic that arrives at different date to the calculation must be faulty. You can then spend hours looking for the flaw in that logic, or not, your choice. The logic is really only important to the person trying to support the faulty date as they need to keep you busy and confused so that you won't put extreme pressure on them to explain the only question that really needs answering ..... Where is the mistake? They have to show you where it is, because if there isn't one .... they are wrong.

  Allymom does the calculation for you in this thread, but you really should do it yourself as well. So should your cousin.

  586/587 the KISS approach --- no VAT4956 ... - Jehovahs-Witness.Net
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  yadda yadda 2

  Ask yourself this young lady: why would Jehovah permit millions of babies, infants and children to die from horrible diseases, starvation and war and all sorts of other horrible suffering but give you a special sign to stay in a religion that has policies that harm little babies, infants and children? Forget the JW's, go to University, get a nice boyfriend, and enjoy your life. Cut the head off the snake of superstition that has been lying at your crib since birth now that you are an adult. You are wiser now.
• 

  blindnomore

  Oh my god, How sweet of you all! Where were you when I so desperately needed you 25 years ago? I envy MSGG for all the support and helpful informations she's getting from you. None of these were availble then. I am so impressed by you all!

  MSGG, Can you see how sincerely you are cared from these accused as 'mentaly deseased' by your elders and organization? Please do take full advantage of all the referances that's been handled to you by these caring people. But you have to really dig into them. Take your time. I would also like to recommand you Ray Franz' second book 'In Search of Christian Freedom.' It's a must read book especially for those of doubting witnesses.