by King Solomon 54 Replies latest watchtower beliefs
Instead, it's about trying to HELP others to engage in self-examination, so THEY can fix a problem they may not even be aware that exists. It's all about identifying traits that MAY be shared.
So when someone points to your statements..... do you seld examine them even if they are about self examination?
oh and by the way
ALTHOUGH, your challenge DOES remind me of a BIG ONE that has not yet been mentioned:
how does my challenge remind you of the big one?
I am just asking....
Cyberjesus (or any others), you can simply send me a pm with any OT concerns you feel need to be addressed? Or, if a spin-off issue results that you feel is of interest and benefit to the JWN community, you can always start a new thread?
KS: the title of this thread is
If you are reading this title, everything you know needs to be questioned
And what I am doing is just that. I am questioning you if you yourself question what you state that you know? Or do you only ask people to question what they know but you are already sure that what you know is true?
Putting to test what you say is exactly what WE must do. Even if that means questioning the very same things we are questioning... Because we as EX JW lived a live of assumptions... we believed those assumptions....
In your opening post there were many assumptions.... and therefore this thread is perfectly applied to your OP... and that is great.... Do you question what you know? and why you think you know it? What if someone points at you that what you are doing is making assumptions? are you questioning everything you know?
No need to PM in response to a public thread.... making it public makes it fun... that way whatever we write is open to critique... No thread in a forum is a lecture.. :-) or is it?
I should ask myself that.
I think 3 major things lead me into a cult....strong belief in a god, too trusting and nieve, always thinking good of people despite the evidence.
This has its basis in a dysfuntional upbringing....making bad appear good, manipulation appear to be loving, and hope that there is something better in life than what I had experienced...lack of clear rules and structure. lack of enjoyment in life...I had a very distorted view of the world...and a sever lack of education. I was limited in life experience...apart from bad ones. (plenty of experience there)....I had a negative outlook on life. I trusted others too much because I did not fully trust myself to make right decisions. I was a sad sorry ass...and they knocked on my door and took full advantage of that. And the really sad part about that is that they are sad sorry assess themselves being taken advantage of themselves. Guess thats why I trusted them so much...they were a lot like me.
The Jw's gave me sturcture, the same false love, they manipulated my thinking (or lack of thinking), they gave me a false hope. And I lapped it up.
I question everything now. And always will. I am less trusting, but trust people who have earnt that trust. I no longer hand control of my life over to others. It is mine.
Cyberjesus said:
KS: the title of this thread is
If you are reading this title, everything you know needs to be questioned
And what I am doing is just that. I am questioning you if you yourself question what you state that you know?
What: the need to question the very assumptions that played a role in becoming a member of a cult? You're not question THAT, are you? That's a principle that's accepted to be a critical element of the de-programming process. You're really not questioning the importance of THAT, are you?
In reviewing the thread, I see you clearly didn't understand the point I was trying to make about discipline and spanking (i.e. the first post you objected to). Nevertheless, you decided it was worth derailing the entire thread over it, so fine. TIn fact, the odds are good that others may not have followed, either (maybe I didn't explain it well enough, trying not to write a massive post that no one would read), so I'll explain it again:
I was referring to the flawed concept that many JWs hold, believing that infants can comprehend morality from birth, since 'right vs wrong' is hard-wired, being innate/inborn. Hence they may discipline a 6 mo. old when it becomes fidgity during a meeting, taking it outside and spanking it (we've all seen it done on at least one occasion; at least, I've talked to JW relatives who STILL believe this to be a fact of infants).
You objected, saying that discipline doesn't mean spanking. True, but it's a pointless thing to the mention, since we're talking about infants: have you ever tried reasoning with an infant, one who cannot even talk yet? That's exactly WHY they feel spanking of infants is justified: it's the logical conclusion they come by combining 'spare the rod' Biblical thinking with the flawed assumption that a infant knows they're misbehaving, intentionally being bad. That combination leads parents to justify the spanking of infants, well below the age that child development experts say it would be reasonable to do.
Do you question what you know? and why you think you know it? What if someone points at you that what you are doing is making assumptions? are you questioning everything you know?
You seem to not get the point of the thread: it's not about what I know, or even you know, but about the PROCESS of IDing the assumptions that MAY or MAY NOT be a risk factor for someone joining a cult. By identifying as many as possible, others can ask if perhaps THEY share the similar assumptions, and hence THEY can question them to see if what they know is valid. You cannot address an assumption you aren't even aware of (what philosophers refer to as "unknown unknowns") so the thread is an attempt to convert as many 'unknown unknowns' into 'known unknowns' so EACH INDIVIDUAL can evaluate THEIR beliefs.
Since we're all individuals, your collection of unchallenged assumptions will be quite different from everyone elses, but my point is there ARE some commonly-held assumptions that are found in most "interested ones" (in JW parlance),or else they just wouldn't be receptive to the JW message at the door. Right? After all, it's easier to sell the JW "message" to an individual who is already pre-desposed to accepting the specifics of what they're 'selling'; my goal here is to add as many possible psychological vulnerabilities as possible, so people can evaluate them, and mitigate.
Does that make sense?
Hi ST,
Thanks for posting your experiences; man, you added a WHOLE BUNCH to the list.
This sentence caught my eye:
And the really sad part about that is that they are sad sorry assess themselves being taken advantage of themselves. Guess thats why I trusted them so much...they were a lot like me.
That sent chills down my spine, as it indicates they really DO have the psychological "home field advantage" (even if the average JW cannot recognize the dynamic): the JWs have very little "selling" to do, since the people they contact in FS often will actually "self-select" the JWs. They were primed, waiting, even searching for SOMETHING that was filled by what the JWs offered.
And that is EXACTLY the point of this thread: anyone who is contemplating joining the JWs needs to SEE that "the answer" offered by JWs is not "the ONLY answer", but just one of many. As you've proven, there's more to the story than what JWs offer (and at a great hidden cost to relationships, emotions, etc).
Kinda makes me wonder, though: do you ever look back on the JW experience as a positive force in your life, since it got you where it got you today? In other words, could you have gotten to this same point WITHOUT JWs being a stop on the path?
Kinda makes me wonder, though: do you ever look back on the JW experience as a positive force in your life, since it got you where it got you today? In other words, could you have gotten to this same point WITHOUT JWs being a stop on the path?
No, shit happens. Some people are born into supportive positive environments...it's easier for them to smell shit.
Some people are born in an environment that they have to claw their way out of if they want to smell the roses...this is not a positive force. It is a random event. Some people never realise this and stay where they are their entire lives blaming the past for their future and not even realising their future can be very different if they make different choices. Life is not predetermined...change your mindset...change the outcome.
Of course because life is mostly random, there are things out of our control...but realising that can change how you react to life too.
General rule of sales KS....no matter how bad you are at selling, if you knock on enough doors a percentage of people will always buy/need/want what you are selling.
Of course some people are 'gifted' in this area and do better than the average joe. But it all comes down to numbers and opportunity.
I was searching....they happened to knock on my door....HELLO...god found ME....doh!
Actually, I was looking for elaboration on the hoilidays/blood policy bit. Why was holdidays/blood policy NOT a show-stopper for you, when it is, for so many others?______King Solomon
Actually King Solomon , after a full examination of this religion , the policies of the WTS
did become a show stopper for me. I refused to get baptised and left
.
