Raymond Franz's Betrayal

by IslandWoman 52 Replies latest jw friends

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  ChristFollower

  IslandWoman,

  Months after I left the WT, I went online looking for Raymond Franz's insights (since the WT had bad mouthed him so much, I knew he must have something). I didn't read his book until years later, and then only by scanning it.

  You have to realize that Ray Franz did his part by exposing the "inside" of the WT, but that is it. Which is to say, Ray Franz isn't meant to be a spiritual leader. Think about it: if an ex-JW leaves the WT, what is the natural response if Franz was leading some kind of church? The ex-Jdub response might be to follow this ex-WT GB-man in the way they followed the WT. Are you getting my drift? From what I could tell, Raymond Franz was just as messed up after writing the book, as he was while a JW (theologically speaking). An ex-JW may be inclined to make him a new cult leader to replace the WT. What I am saying, is that it is for the best that he lay low.

  No, I am glad he isn't involved because it would just give the WT something to criticize. God bless Raymon Franz's courage to write the book. But I really think it is for the best that he not be a "public figure" leading the charge against the WT. Will someone ever be that "public figure"? Who knows?
• 

  gravedancer

  With what appears to be his holier than thou Christian attitude one wonders what Ray's answer would be to the following question:

  "Ray, who are more evil: the Jehovah's Witnesses or the XJW Atheists?"
• 

  Amazing

  Teejay:

  "If you read his books, surely you *must* know that one of the if not THE message of his life's work is that it is a useless waste of time and effort to look to other men to intercede for us with god. I'd be very surprised if he were to come to this site to offer a thunderous word of support to people who are "lost." For me it would contradict everything he said in his books."

  Good points Teejay. His prime directive, so to speak, has been not to lead anything or anyone, but simply tell the truth about the Society. He has been helpful to many others since the writing of his books ... but done so on a personal level, face to face, and in a way that he is able to deal with it effectively.

  IW:

  "Ray Franz has group meetings with others to study the Bible. Tell me, if he were just Br. Nobody would he still be able to gather a group of xJWs around himself? He is famous. Most of us are under the woodwork!"

  Ray has not gathered some group around himself. Christian fellowship, or fellowship of any kind is a normal human behavior. Not all the people are necessarily x-JWs. The people that meet with him are not looking to him nor do they follow him. The Bible study group they have rotates to different homes, hosted by different families ... and Ray is not the center of attention. The views of these individuals do not always agree with Ray, and he does not always agree with them. Were he somekind of leader, there would be evidence of that. He has been careful to avoid forming, building, organizing, or participating in the operations of any organization. He attended a number of sessions of BRCI when they were held in his part of the country.
• 

  think41self

  IW,

  You original post on this thread is strangely reminiscent to your thread trashing Maximus. Same point, same outcry.

  think41self

  If I'd known I was going to live this long, I'd have taken better care of myself!
• 

  Xena

  Island Woman didn't you start a thread devoted to "free speach"? Freedom of speach also includes the freedom NOT TO SPEAK. Ray Franz does not owe you nor anyone else a thing. It is his RIGHT to not speak here.

  I find it hard to believe that after being duped by a group of men anyone would want to replace them with another group of men telling you what to do and directing your life. To each his own I suppose, but to expect, no DEMAND that someone take that position in your life...well that is a bit much don't you think?

  We are reasoning adults, we should be able to make our own way and make our own decisions about our faith. That is the GIFT some received from Ray Franz...their shackles to a group of men were cut and they received the freedom to think for THEMSELVES.

  If Ray Franz effected your life in this way, why not thank him instead of heaping abuse upon his head?
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  Celia

  Many are thirsty and hungry. If they are not fed they will die. Ray Franz and others of his ilk must speak out here!
  IW

  Ray Franz and others who have left the Watch Tower because of their conscience, because they could not accept the hypocrisy anymore, have been accused of doing so because they wanted to start their own religion.... because they were haughty and lacked humility....

  If Ray did what you want him to do, think how that would be preceived by all these people in the organization who have spread these rumors about him starting a new religion ??? New amunitions to discredit him and what he stands for.
  And he is very busy, working on a new printing of the third edition of CoC. and much more...
• 

  compton

  Be careful what you say, remember Jehovah is the judge. Ray's book was very helpful
  and he pointed to the true source truth. Christ Jesus any the true way..
• 

  SRL

  IW,

  I met Ray some years ago at his house and again just very recently I talked with him over the phone. He's eighty now and his wife is in poor health. I’m not sure how much energy he has for web posting.

  I got the chance to really pick his brain during that informal get together back in the mid-nineties. He’s actually a very mild mannered kind of individual and doesn’t try to press his beliefs onto anyone else. He has a kind of different view of the Godhead, though I couldn’t really completely grasp it. I remember thinking he hadn’t really ‘left’ the Watchtower because he didn’t believe exactly like I did concerning who God is. That was a long time ago and I’ve grown to the point where I realize the folly of such thinking (mine).

  He was pretty much responsible for the ‘Aid to Bible Understanding’ book that we all knew as JW’s. He admitted to me that he was also in part responsible for the early 1980’s push for those who were JW’s to ‘shun’ those who left the group. I lost my JW sister right about that time. Little does she realize she was being (however well intentioned) misled. I could tell by the expression in Ray’s face the guilt and pain he felt for his involvement with the book and its contents. He still maintained there was a lot of truth in it, but acknowledges the shunning ‘push’ was wrong.

  Why am I telling you all this? Well maybe to give an insight to the man. And maybe also to challenge you to avoid looking to any one man for ‘spiritual guidance’. Don’t allow yourself to feel betrayed because he doesn’t agree with your ideals in every manner. Ray has done a great service to us all with his book, ‘Crisis of Conscience’. But remember he’s just a man like any other man. No more, no less.

  Steve . . .
• 

  patio34

  One of my personal principles i now keep in mind is "live and let live." What Mr. Franz chooses to do is his own business and he doesn't owe it to anyone to continue with sites, the way i see it.

  Actually, i didn't read his books until way after i'd left. The books i read immediately when leaving were The Blind Watchmaker, Guns Germs & Steel, The Third Chimpanzee which were all on evolution. Mr. Franz's books were helpful in seeing the borg for what it was, but were not the reason for my leaving.

  Pat
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  JWinSF

  I personally feel that both are "A-OK". I read Raymond's books in 1994. In late 1993 I was starting to plan disassociating due to my sexual orientation. However, I fully believed everything else about the JW theology. When I read Raymond's books, I was [1] impressed with the amount of information that exposed the Organization for being basically untruthful and [2] pleased that it took a non-confrontational approach. In fact, had Raymond come down sarcastically or very negatively [instead, he merely presented irrefutable, documented proof to back everything up] I probably would have rethought disassociating.

  In 1996 or 1997 I came across Kent's site and thought it was equally good. While it comes across much more "in your face", again, the information is forthright and irrefutable, at least from what I've seen on the site. I also owe Kent a debt of gratitude. When I asked him to put up something on his site about gays/lesbians, he graciously devoted an entire section to us and our support group. And, he did this even though he took strong criticism from the fundamentalist based ex-JWs. I don't think that if Raymond had a website, that he'd do the same thing for our group.

  So, I can see from Raymond's point of view why he would not want to have his information on Kent's site. It doesn't lower my high regard for either individual. Both have served a great purpose in helping other hurt JWs and ex-JWs into a healing process.