1975 ???

by Scorpion 91 Replies latest jw friends

• 

  Xandit

  I was there through the whole thing and I certainly disagree with Amicus, larc and others. 99%+ of the Witnesses I knew, and from what I can tell most Witnesses, did not make any changes whatsoever in their lives because of the 1975 stuff. Yes, some sold their houses to pioneer, some passed on medical treatment, and indeed some did run up debt on the assumption they wouldn't have to pay for it, but, the vast majority did not do those things. Education is in my opinion a separate issue and not particularly linked to 1975. The people that really jumped on the 1975 business desperately wanted it to happen then for all kinds of reasons, a lot of them were "escaping." They were not wise or judicious, but no one forced them to do what they did. It's their responsibility, just like the nut cases down at the corner store buying lottery tickets a hundred bucks at a time. Just like someone that's a smoker is responsible for their actions. I get so sick of this lack of personal responsibility, everything is always someone else's fault. It makes me gag. I think I'll go down to McDonalds and see if I can't spill some hot coffee in my lap.

  Edited by - Xandit on 23 January 2001 14:8:8
• 

  ianao

  Hello Xandit.

  99%+ of the Witnesses I knew, and from what I can tell most Witnesses, did not make any changes whatsoever in their lives because of the 1975 stuff.

  Looks like most of the witnesses you knew did not consider the WT publications as "meat in due season", now did they?

  Yes, some sold their houses to pioneer, some passed on medical treatment, and indeed some did run up debt on the assumption they wouldn't have to pay for it, but, the vast majority did not do those things.

  If this is true, then why did the witnesses suffer a DECLINE in this period? Didn't they lose quite a number of people? (Anyone have that percentage?)

  Also Xandit, if "1975" could have been a way to "weed out" the unfaithful, as another has contended, I will then ask you to show me where the WT can biblically print something to remove followers with a lack of faith in "God's channel" by having only those certain people pay attention to what they print!? Please tell me biblicly where they are permitted to "speak in parables" as Jesus did? On what authority? On God's? Very presumptious, don't you think?

  The people that really jumped on the 1975 business desperately wanted it to happen then for all kinds of reasons, a lot of them were "escaping." They were not wise or judicious, but no one forced them to do what they did.

  Amen, as is the whole guise of a witness, they want an end to this "system of things". And of COURSE nobody forced them to do what they did. They took the divine encouragement as it came as "meat in due season" from the faithful and discrete slave. Do you consider this an unwise prosepect, to listen to their words? Or should you "take it with a grain of salt?"

  just like the nut cases down at the corner store buying lottery tickets a hundred bucks at a time.

  The nut cases, as you put it have MENTAL PROBLEMS and CHEMICLE IMBALANCES that are responsible for their skewed thinking. They were either BORN with or developed the problem.

  Just like someone that's a smoker is responsible for their actions.

  A smoker is the victim of a Tabacco company's will to put money and power over people's safety by distributing an addictive drug. Don't believe me? Take a look at http://www.truth.com. No matter what a tobacco industry exec would like you to think, it IS an addictive drug. Once you start, your hooked, and it's VERY hard to stop. FACT! Should someone start smoking in the first place? No. But then again, most smokers don't understand that it will EVENTUALLY KILL THEM.

  I get so sick of this lack of personal responsibility, everything is always someone else's fault. It makes me gag. I think I'll go down to McDonalds and see if I can't spill some hot coffee in my lap.

  Ignorance is bliss, isn't it?
• 

  ianao

  Oh, one other thing Xandit,

  Education is in my opinion a separate issue and not particularly linked to 1975.

  WHO gave them the idea to forget about an education and pioneer, PIONEER, PIONEER, eh?
• 

  amicus

  When I first read this thread I chose not to comment and continued to read other topics. As I continued to read I found myself thinking about what it was like to be a witness in those days, it's not a subject I dwell on or often discuss. It's far different than today, and I find that sad. I enjoyed the enthusiasm and zeal, there was a vibrancy that I don't see in todays Kingdom Halls. This comment by Trevor is what made me start remembering the old days which I have fond memories of.
  

  Those who suffered as a result of the build up to 1975 will tell you it was no joke. I too left school to pioneer at 15 and at 17 found myself in a bed-sit waiting for the end to come. It took some years to extract myself from under the spell of these false prophets the WT.

  
  I do not read into that statement that Trevor does not accept personal responsibility for his actions.
  

  I get so sick of this lack of personal responsibility, everything is always someone else's fault. It makes me gag.

  
  Did I miss something? Has anyone here tried to absolve themselves of any personal responsibility? If I have given anyone the impression that my relationship with the WTBTS wasn't a partnership, I apologize. I was not forced to do anything by anyone. Was I misled? Yep. Do I like admitting that? Nope. Did the WTBTS intentionally try to mislead the flock? I think so. Have they tried to distance themselves from this? Absolutely. Do they rewrite their history? Whenever it suites them.
  Trevor,
  

  I think it is easier to understsnd the WTS when one realises that they are a political party.

  Organized religion always ends up this way because power corrupts.The bigger the religion the bigger the corruption.

  
  You do a pretty good job of expressing my sentiments. They no more represent the God of the Bible that does George Bush Jr.

  Edited by - amicus on 23 January 2001 15:18:8
• 

  RedhorseWoman

  I was one who took the 1975 idea with a "grain of salt". I also knew that I had better keep my mouth shut about it, because I was definitely in the minority.

  One of my friends told me that she and her parents were storing food and WT literature up in the attic so they could hide there when the great tribulation started in a year or two.

  Those who took the 1975 prediction with a "grain of salt" were looked on as being on the spiritually weak side. Those that received lots of accolades and whose experiences were spoken about at the assemblies and were written up in the publications were those who sold everything to pioneer in "the remaining days of this System of Things".

  The Society encouraged the end-of-the-world fervor in every word spoken and in every word written.
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  amicus

  RedHorseWoman,
  Thanks for your honesty. I don't like using words like "spiritually weak or sick". I advoid those terms as they have no value to me any longer. They do, though, represent how some were viewed in the congregations and sometimes how whole congregations were viewed. It's a part of the history of the WTBTS, as is the 1975 failed prophecy.
  Something that I haven't seen discussed is "How much money did the Society make from donations during that time period?"
  I know of one family that donated most of their (considerable) wealth to the Brooklyn Boppers. If I personally know of one family, there has to be others.
• 

  notperfectyet

  Let's see...1975...don't remember much about it, do remember 1973, taken out of high school, didn't need an education, reading just the Awake, I could get a college education and pioneer. International assembly in Hawaii, that was fun. Turned 16 that year, didn't need a drivers license, the end was near, didn't need to go any where except in the service, wanted a job.....nope, didn't need one. 1974 found out my sister in law was pregnant, cried myself to sleep, ( woe to the pregnant one )Luke 21:23 was quoted over and over. Stay alive 'till "75" was a phrase coined in our household.
  I got married in 1974, at 16, got pregnant immediately. "woe" again. It was scary times. Well, I'm still here, was left with 3 kids, no education. Went back to school, raised the kids, sending them through college. One is a regular pioneer, his own choice.

  No choices when you're under parents authority, or an Organization, that gags me.
• 

  larc

  Ianao,

  I have the numbers. In 1973 they had a 3% increase, in '74 +14%, in '75 +9%, '76 +3%, in '77 & '78 they lost 1% and in '79 they had no growth. I think this clearly indicates that '75 did have an impact. The percent getting baptized is even more dramatic:
  '73 +18%, '74 +55%!, '75 no change,
  '76 35% fewer than the year before,
  '77 38% lower than the year before,
  '78 18% lower than the year before that
  '79 +12% above an already lowered number.

  Xandit,

  I would call your grain of salt a disbelief. What other disbeliefs do you have, then and now?
• 

  Deacon

  1975 was an important date to the Witnesses. No..I didnt quite believe big A was going to happen ... but I didnt quite believe it was not going to happen either.

  You see, as an 18 year old at the time, I believed totally in the infallibility of the governing body. Their word was gospel. Now, as I read all the retrospective history of Jehovahs Witnesses, I cannot quite accept the blame or the inference that my perspective was and is not accurate, my recollections ARE accurate to the point that I can quote chapter on verse of the expressions used by elders, C.O's and even members of the GB....

  So please dont tell me that it was all my choice or responsibility.. I just followed the leader(s) as instructed.

  Now Im told it was a weeding out process..well excuse me, Jehovah doesnt weed out people through misinformation and redirection and suppression...it was a mistake for which accountability must be upheld by Jehovah in his due time...

  More important than 1975 is the change of the 1914 issue and generation understanding....now that hurts more than anything...

  Only this time....I really dont have any feeling about it except irritation and anger at the constant interpretation of scripture by a voting process which may or may not affect my life....

  I find it hard to accept that members of the GB may be going against their own bible trained conscience in accepting decrees as unanimous for the sake of loyalty to the majority on the committee............

  its a mess.
• 

  larc

  Deacon,

  This weeding out arguement is highly insulting, don't you think? What they are saying that the most faithful, and therefore, the most crushed should leave, while the unbelievers who won't speak up and say so, are flowers in God's garden. Isn't that pathetic.