1975 ???

by Scorpion 91 Replies latest jw friends

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  Xandit

  ianao, since I don't ascribe to the "weed them out" theory I don't feel like I need to defend it. As far as the reduction in numbers goes, I think most of it came from people who came into the organization because they'd had the bejeezus scared out of them and when nothing materialized they went right back out. Of the few that I knew that sold houses, etc. not one of them went out. Most of them seemed to get along quite happily afterward. There was a certain convenient memory loss about their adamancy as to future events but that was about it. I've knocked 1975 pretty hard a few times in public talks and it doesn't seem to bother most people. One or two old duffers tried to give me some grief about it but they backed down pretty quick.

  Never thought ignorance was bliss, don't understand the idea to tell the truth. Ignorance is bloody awful in my opinion.
• 

  TR

  It's pretty easy to "monday morning quarterback" what people should have done or not done, thought or not thought after we've been out of the borg a while. All I know is how I felt myself when I was a JW. I just knew 'geddon was coming. I just knew I'd be toast if I didn't try to be a good JW. I was thoroughly convinced that I had the truth. I just didn't understand it when people da'd or got df'd. Why would they purpously leave God? I felt profound guilt because I didn't want to drop all responsibilities and go "serve where the need was greater". That's how I felt until the stresses of being a good JW and having "unbelieving" family took their toll on me.

  What I'm saying is this: It's hard to be objective with a religiously detached point of view when you're a JW that has been hoodwinked by the WTS. Yes, it's still my fault, I'm still to blame. After all, It was I that decided to join the WTS without doing the necessary research. Here again is the "comes back to bite me in the ass" consequences. I gave up ten years of my life. That's my punishment for being stupid.

  TR
• 

  Scorpion

  TR,

  I like your style. You say it like it is. No punches pulled!
• 

  trevor

  Thanks,I enjoyed all the above comments,

  People who were not involved in 1975 cannot understsnd the pressure to conform. I knew a lad who decided to do a 7 year apprenticeship. My parents forbade me to associate with him as he did not love Jehovah enough to pioneer. His family was to be shunned for encouraging him. The group of pioneers warned me to keep away from him in case I got ideas about training.

  Now 30 years later he is still an elder. How does a 15 year old go against their whole family knowing the will be treated like scum if they don't conform? When you have been forbidden any friends outside the congregation, these people are your whole world your security. Adults can live with their descisions and to some extent take a share of responsibility for them - but what about the children - they never had a chance.

  trevor
• 

  thinkers wife

  Personally, I think this is just a difference of viewpoint and circumstance. My father has been pioneering for forty five years. After all of us kids grew up and left home, my mother started pioneering too.
  My Dad is extremely intelligent. And regardless of what the Society taught, thank God, he saw the importance of planning for the future. Unfortunately, that did not extend to education for us kids. One of my brothers was Honor Society in school. He could have probably went through college just on the scholarships. My Dad did have scholarships that would have taken him through college. He also was valedictorian of his class. I don't think he has suffered from pursuing the course he chose (financially anyway). But at forty one years old, I wish I had more education to back me up. I have my own cleaning business which is fairly lucrative but very strenuous physically. And my dream of becoming a decorater is very hard to attain. How can you find the means or time to pursue something when you still have to maintain the income you have without taking a break? I am not bitter about this in any way. But it does give one pause for thought. How would my life have been different if the Society had not discouraged higher education.
  You cannot excuse their culpability in these matters. Most good JW's follow what they are told to do in one degree or another. Some take it further than others. But it is irrefutable that people are affected.
  TW
• 

  ianao

  To Xandit:

  I understand your circumstances, and I also understand everyone else' circumstances regarding 1975. And what you say about those coming in BECAUSE of 1975, then later leaving makes sense.

  My whole point in the whole matter is that it was an issue that effected many. You said:

  There was a certain convenient memory loss about their adamancy as to future events but that was about it.

  I am glad you said that, and that is my whole point to any JW I talk to. They would have me believe that it just wasn't important, and nobody really took it seriously. I just wish I could go back in time and take a peek into the noggins of all JWs in 1975 just to see what they were THINKING. I know if *I* were around and read what the society (read: God's only channel to mankind) had written at that time, I would have been quaking in my boots for fear of NOT surviving armageddon. THAT is why I get mad when a JW tells me "oh, it wasn't that important". Give it another 15-20 years and it will be FORGOTTEN! To NEW people of that time, it will seem as the society is INFALLIBLE, when it's writing comittee AND GB are living,breathing human beings like the rest of us.
• 

  Pathofthorns

  As has already been mentioned, a parallel to the mentality of Witnesses regarding the generation 1914 doctrine had been used. I find it facinating, or should I say disturbing when i talk to someone only a few years younger than me and they have no idea about the old or even the new understanding is or how prominently it played in our teachings.

  But I KNOW that it was one of our PRIMARY teachings, one that I used with EVERY person I studied the Bible with, that the generation that saw the events of 1914 would see the end of the system. (see old Awake forward) I used to say, like we all thought and what seemed to make sense at the time, that "how long can these ones possibly live"? "doesn't this show how close we are?".

  I think subconscious or conscious reaction to this change in what was a PRIMARY teaching is responsible for the declining situation that Witnesses find themselves in today. It is the one thing that killed the drive, the SENSE OF URGENCY. And it's the one thing that brought each witness face to face with their own mortality.

  When 1975 failed, they just switched over to hype the generation teaching. When that failed, we are left with nothing really. Some may cling to the "last date" we have, the death of the "genuine annointed". But, I think they are really too scared to put forth any more real "predictions". And that's the catch 22 they find themselves in, that we have survived on predictions, but have burned the members one too many times to make one more.

  The religion really, when you look at it through history is always contingent on the end being "just around the corner". With all the talks and articles on "serving with Everlasting life in View", that is probably the one thing we were never really taught to do.

  Path
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  Sassenach

  On the subject of personal responsibility, I haven't got much tolerence for adults who willingly give their lives away to any organization that has such a poor record of prognostication. At the same time, to shift blame onto your followers for putting faith in what you had to say is a definate breach of trust.

  When I had to go in hospital for a minor procedure, a kindly friend thought to bring me up to speed on the watchtower's "present understanding" regarding blood. I'm not a pea-brain. I was not about to risk my future for a "present" understanding that could change at any moment. I suppose I don't understand mind control.

  Xandit, haven't figured out what you are yet. Are you a sheep in wolf's clothing, or a wolf in sheep's clothing? How do you handle this "present understanding" nonsense? Would you risk your life, or your child's for a "present" view of something?

  Edited by - Sassenach on 24 January 2001 13:4:8
• 

  larc

  Sassenbach,

  The thing about people giving themselves over to an oganization with such a poor track record. I think one of the problems is that for new ones coming in, the past is a blur and has no bearing on their lives. The WT intentionaly blurs that history to compound the problem.. I know that when I taught (now retired), that if I gave examples that occured before the time of my 21 year old students, my examples were as ancient as the Civil War to them and my vivid memories were beside the point. To make it worse for new JWs, I think, the older ones have a memory distortion of what happened. I think this occurs for two reasons, the Society encourages it through clever explainations, and the person does it unconsciously, on their own to resolve cognitive dissonance and to ease the mental pain. Thus, everyone stays relatively content.

  I have tryed, over the years, to see things the way they are and to try to remember them as accurately as possible, not always successfully I might add. However, when you have distinct memories of the '70's, not only the quotes before and after '75, but the reaction of real people, then I have to conclude that it was a big deal. I can't prove it to some who claims otherwise, but I agree with those who say they experienced suffering.

  What I can say next is more objective, regarding the subject of education. I had a sister and a cousin who were both valedictorians in high school. Neither went on to college. Of about 100 kids in the city where I lived, I was the only one who went to college, and I had to talk my mother into it. (There was one exception, a person who did not become a JW until he was 15. None who were in a long time went on.) One day I told three friends of mine that I was going to college. They told me that Argmageddon would be here before I graduated. All three of these are grandparents today.

  Yes, I think the words of the WT had a strong impact on the majority of members, way back when.
• 

  TR

  larc,

  The WT intentionaly blurs that history to compound the problem.. I know that when I taught (now retired), that if I gave examples that occured before the time of my 21 year old students, my examples were as ancient as the Civil War to them and my vivid memories were beside the point. To make it worse for new JWs, I think, the older ones have a memory distortion of what happened. I think this occurs for two reasons, the Society encourages it through clever explainations, and the person does it unconsciously, on their own to resolve cognitive dissonance and to ease the mental pain. Thus, everyone stays relatively content.

  You hit the nail on the head. These, I believe, are the main reasons that the WTS survives. There is definately a pattern going on here:

  1) WTS makes predictions and sets health directives
  a)repeatedly drums into JW's heads reliance on FDS
  b)FDS sole source of "accurate" info
  c)JW's repeatedly reminded of consequences of non-reliance of FDS
  d)FDS's predictions and health directives proved false or wrong
  e)WTS slowly changes policy with ambiguous articles in literature
  f)"The WT intentionaly blurs that history to compound the problem"
  g)confused JW's slow to react to or don't notice WTS changes

  The above seems to happen in repeated cycles throughout WTS history.

  TR

  Edited by - TR on 24 January 2001 11:55:39