Killing Ananias and Sapphira

by irondork 313 Replies latest watchtower bible

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    The story is crediting God with the death of Ananias and Sapphira. We do not agree. That is what the story says.

    The difference between us, is I don't need to edit to make Jesus seem like what I want him to be. So I can read it, and simply take it for what it says. And the story says that God is responsible for their deaths.

    Dying of emotional trauma can happen, especially if there is a preexisting condition. Two people dying in the exact same manner, abruptly, hours apart, after receiving some bad news, does not happen.

  • tec
    tec

    Because I read it, and I didn't have a filter on my eyes. I did not edit it to fit in with who I want Jesus to be. I simply read it.

    No, you had a filter. We all have filters. Your filter is the belief that God does such things... kills people like that. I'm guessing you get that filter from things in the OT, and religion. My filter is Christ. I have never attempted to hide that, and I make no apologies for it. I see God through Christ... not through anything or anyone else.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • tec
    tec

    And the story says that God is responsible for their deaths.

    No, it does not. You have read that into it.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    No, Tec, that is not my filter. I don't believe in gods. So I can simply read it for what it is. If the account is saying that a god did something good, then fine. He doesn't exist, so it is just another piece of the character. If it said he did something gruesome, well fine. That is also a piece of character. I have no notion of what this god should be outside of what I read. I don't have to rework him to make myself comfortable. Good, bad, whatever. I don't rework the Joker or Darth Vader either, because the stories tell me who they are.

    Now if I had a belief that Vader MUST be good, I may find myself apologizing for him. Doesn't matter to me though, he's not real. If I have a belief that Vader is bad and he does something good---still no biggie. Even bad people can do good things. Even brutal, horrifying, murderous gods can be nice. But when I read an account, I don't have to change it to make it so. It is laid out there for me. And if I want to deny what is written as clear as anything, I would be apologizing. No need to.

  • King Solomon
    King Solomon

    The holy spirit killed her. There are countless examples of those who defied god, ayed false to the spirit, like balam who didnt die of shock. Clear cause and effect is at a minimum implied tammy dear....

    I dunno how much luck you're going to have getting Tammy to admit that Her client committed the murder.

    I couldn't even get Tams to acknowledge that God had anything to do with the death of Adam and Eve: it was an "accident", a hit-and-run while crossing a busy intersection in the garden, a dropped piano, etc.

    (of course, the need to atone for violating YHWH's Divine Will is kinda the entire premise upon which the whole kit and kaboodle is based, i.e. the need for redemption via Christ, demanding shed blood for blood.)

    She doesn't want to accept the basic premise, although she wants to accept the basic premise (rinse and repeat).

  • tec
    tec

    So why do you believe the bad stuff (as in promote the bad stuff as the truth about this 'fictional' god), over the good stuff. We know that the bible has conflicts on this matter. How do you choose which stuff to 'believe' and which to dismiss? How many people interpret the bible as they see fit, NC? I assume you aren't thinking that you're the one who's got it figured out right.

    So when one account says God desires mercy, not sacrifice... and another account states that God wants sacrifice... how do you reconcile them? How do you know which one is right? I know what I do... I look to Christ. But what do you do? Why do you choose to emphasize the bad over the good?

    Peace,

    tammy

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    It most certainly does say that, Tec. EE quoted the scripture. People don't just drop dead like that for no reason. Not two of them, Not abruptly. Not for shock. Not hours apart. The first part points out that they had been false to holy spirit, and then they immediately died. Now you may need every single thing spelled out, you may need to look for ways around what was written, you may choose to sometimes say if it wasn't written it is not true while at other times you say if it wasn't written, it does not mean it is not true. You pick and choose.

    Jesus never mentioned slavery---it wasn't written, but it doesn't mean it didn't happen.

    It doesn't explicity say in tiny words that god killed those two, and I refuse to see it in the implication even though in any other context I would see such implication----therfore it wasn't written, it didn't happen.

    It's whatever you want it to be. That's the bottom line. Whatever you want it to mean is what it will mean to you. You are inconsistent when you apply these principals because the bible is inconsistant with your beliefs. And everything, EVERYTHING, must be reworked to fit in with your beliefs. Confirmation Bias.

    I like some of the goddesses. I don't believe in them, but some of them are written as lovely persons. I don't feel the need to judge all characters as evil. But by golly---this one is not one of those, and it is reflected in the people that created and believed in him.

  • tec
    tec

    I dunno how much luck you're going to have getting Tammy to admit that Her client committed the murder.

    I dont know... about as much luck as I'm gonna have finding someone to offer evidence of it.

    I couldn't even get Tams to acknowledge that God had anything to do with the death of Adam and Eve: it was an "accident", a hit-and-run while crossing a busy intersection in the garden, a dropped piano, etc.

    Now if you don't understand what I stated, that is fine. But the above is a misrepresentation. I think you know that... but I could be wrong about you.

    (of course, the need to atone for violating YHWH's Divine Will is kinda the entire premise upon which the whole kit and kaboodle is based, i.e. the need for redemption via Christ, demanding shed blood for blood.)

    Depends on what version of the religion you're listening to, I suppose.

    Peace,

    tammy

  • NewChapter
    NewChapter

    How do you choose which stuff to 'believe' and which to dismiss?

    I don't believe any of it. I don't dismiss any of it. I do like to point out when others dismiss the bulk of it, and cling to only the happy parts.

    I suppose it is about degrees. If I knew a person who did a lot of good, cared a great deal for people, dedicated time to charity, but lied occasionally, or once or twice they stole something in their past. Then I would judge that person pretty good with a good heart who makes mistakes now and then.

    If I'm dealing with a killer who commits genocide, orders stonings, is oppressive to women and makes them only as valuable as their virginity, and zaps them on the spot, but does some nice things too, then I am dealing with a very evil person who does the occasional nice thing.

  • tec
    tec

    It most certainly does say that, Tec. EE quoted the scripture. People don't just drop dead like that for no reason. Not two of them, Not abruptly. Not for shock. Not hours apart. The first part points out that they had been false to holy spirit, and then they immediately died.

    Nothing in that states that God killed them. Since you and I both know that did not happen... then we know that did not happen. You because you dont' believe in God. Me because I look to Christ to see God.

    Now you may need every single thing spelled out, you may need to look for ways around what was written, you may choose to sometimes say if it wasn't written it is not true while at other times you say if it wasn't written, it does not mean it is not true. You pick and choose.

    No, I look to Christ. The Truth, the Image, the Word of God. All of that is written too, and ignored or worked around, by you and others.

    It doesn't explicity say in tiny words that god killed those two, and I refuse to see it in the implication even though in any other context I would see such implication----therfore it wasn't written, it didn't happen.

    Actually, I would not see it as nearly enough to convict someone of something... enough to ask, yes. Then to listen for an answer. Definitely not enough to state as you and others are, with seeming certainty, that this is what was meant. That this is what happened.

    We won't ever see this or other similar stories the same... because you are not looking at Christ, to know God. If ever you do, then we might see the same. If ever I stopped... then we might also see the same.

    It's whatever you want it to be. That's the bottom line. Whatever you want it to mean is what it will mean to you. You are inconsistent when you apply these principals because the bible is inconsistant with your beliefs. And everything, EVERYTHING, must be reworked to fit in with your beliefs. Confirmation Bias.

    You do this. Or you would not place emphasis on the bad over the good. You would at least say... there is a discrepency. I don't know which one is supposed to represent God. I guess it just represents the different people. That would be unbiased, imo, of someone who does not believe.

    Biased is promoting the bad and ignoring everything about Christ, or explaining it way, as you have done.

    I am not unbiased about the bible either. Not at all. Christ first, everything else second. If it disagrees or is in conflict with the Image Christ presented or a teaching He gave us... then I dismiss it as a)being wrong, or b) being misunderstood by us.

    I like some of the goddesses. I don't believe in them, but some of them are written as lovely persons. I don't feel the need to judge all characters as evil. But by golly---this one is not one of those, and it is reflected in the people that created and believed in him.

    And this just happens to be the one religion (s) that played you and continues to play so many false, claims to represent. I don't mean to throw that in your face, but it is there... like an elephant in the room, otherwise. I don't think you, or any of us, can ever be unbiased about it.

    Peace,

    tammy

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