Killing Ananias and Sapphira

by irondork 313 Replies latest watchtower bible

• 

  Bobcat

  In answer to your specific question about similar examples:

  Uzzah - for touching the Ark when the cart was about to be upset. (2 Sam 6:6, 7)

  Onan - for purposely refusing to make Tamar pregnant. (Gen 38:6-10) Admittedly, this account might be referring to Onan's repeatedly doing this. The text seems a bit ambiguous. I took your question to refer to a one time only/quick judgment. (In Onan's defense, I will say that he didn't get a chance to see the new video.)

  Aaron's two sons who were executed by God for offering illegitimate fire (possibly also involving alchahol use on the job).

  Another man who did something on the Sabbath. I can't remember what it was off hand (picking up sticks?), but it left Moses wondering what to do about it. The answer from Jehovah was to execute him. (Of course, the Sabbath law had already been given. Just no punishment prescribed.)

  Adam & Eve - But they didn't die right away

  These are some possibles that came to mind right away.

  Edited to add: Sorry, I just reread your post and it said NT examples.

  A possible NT example:

  1 Cor 11:27-34 - Here, Paul says some of the Corinthians were judged for matters involving the Lord's Evening Meal. Verse 30 in particular mentions, "that is why many among you are weak and sickly, and quite a few are sleeping [in death]."

  This is ambiguous at best. It doesn't actually say God made them "weak and sickly" or put them to death. Paul might have meant that because of their actions, God withdrew His Spirit and persons who might have benefitted from miraculous healing weren't. But it does link the 'weakness, sickness and death' as a result of their actions involving the Lord's Evening Meal.
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  NewChapter

  But then it's fair to ask: Why not today? Why then? Weak, sick and dying? That's universal. But why this moment is it pointed out as a judgment? does that mean that people will not be weak, sick and dying if they have protection of holy spirit? Do you not see the dichotomy?

  On the one hand: People were weak, sick and dying because their faith was not fiery.

  On the other hand: Oh, those people who have been faithful are weak, sick and dying, because that is the human condition. Or they are being tested, Or there is a greater good being served.

  But one thing is certain: weak, sick and dying will always fit in with the narrative, because there are so many slots. Why are the evil strong and powerful and not weak, sick and dying? Well because god does not intervene. But he DID intervene---A & S is one example. That was because they sought prestige and a lesson was taught. What about the lesson against genocide---is that not a valid lesson? But that is a test that serves the greater good.

  It is incredibly circular. Magic never fails.
• 

  RubaDub

  In one scripture he hangs himself in another hes walking along and his insides explode. Take your pick

  .

  Yes, the exact wording varies in different translations.

  Another translation refers to Judas having been put feet-first into a wood chipper over the course of two hours.

  Rub a Dub
• 

  J. Hofer

  just keep reading acts and you'll stumble upon another nice event:

  Acts 12

  21 But on a set day Herod clothed himself with royal raiment and sat down upon the judgment seat and began giving them a public address. 22 In turn the assembled people began shouting: “A god’s voice, and not a man’s!” 23 Instantly the angel of Jehovah struck him, because he did not give the glory to God; and he became eaten up with worms and expired.
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  NewChapter

  Oh yeah, I forgot about that one.
• 

  Leolaia

  The only real parallel that comes to mind in the NT (involving members of the Christian community) is provided by Paul. In Acts 5:9, Ananias and Sapphira "agreed to put the Spirit of the Lord to the test" and they then receive death as their reward. Compare with what Paul says here:

  "We should not commit sexual immorality, as some of them did [in the wilderness], and in one day twenty-three thousand of them died. We should not test the Lord, as some of them did, and were killed by snakes. And do not grumble, as some of them did, and were killed by the destroying angel.... You cannot drink the cup of the Lord and the cup of demons too; you cannot have a part in both the Lord's table and the table of demons. Are we trying to arouse the Lord's jealousy?... A person who eats and drinks without recognizing the Body is eating and drinking to his own condemnation. In fact, that is why many of you are weak and ill and some of you have died. If only we recollected ourselves, we should not be punished like that. But when the Lord does punish us like that, it is to correct us and stop us from being condemned with the world" (1 Corinthians 10:8-10, 21-22, 11:28-32).

  "That is why many of you are weak and ill and some of you have died." Paul interprets the recent deaths of certain people in the church as divine punishment for testing the Lord, just as the Israelites did in the wilderness (e.g. Numbers 21:5-6, Deuteronomy 6:16). In the Lukan narrative, Ananias and Sapphira were construed as putting the Lord to the test in a manner similar to Achan and they were punished like those in the OT.

  This is ambiguous at best. It doesn't actually say God made them "weak and sickly" or put them to death. Paul might have meant that because of their actions, God withdrew His Spirit and persons who might have benefitted from miraculous healing weren't. But it does link the 'weakness, sickness and death' as a result of their actions involving the Lord's Evening Meal.

  The thing is though, Paul directly compares the present situation with the situation of the Israelites in the wilderness who put God to the test and incited his wrath.
• 

  J. Hofer

  on a side note, why did they use "jehovah" in Acts 12:23? it's no "old testament" quote and it doesn't even help their theology. they just put it there for the fun of it or to not repeat the word "god"?
• 

  Leolaia

  The Society does not only interpolate "Jehovah" in places where an OT text is being quoted (e.g. "Jehovah" appears in the quotation from 1 Enoch 1:9 in Jude 14-15 in the NWT, and it is certain that no such name occurred originally there in 1 Enoch); it often does so elsewhere as long as there is a precedent in any earlier Hebrew translation of the NT:

  Throughout the centuries many translations of parts or of all the Christian Greek Scriptures have been made into Hebrew. Such translations, designated in this work by “J” with a superior number, have restored the divine name to the inspired Christian Greek Scriptures in various places. They have restored the divine name not only when coming upon quotations from the Hebrew Scriptures but also in other places where the texts called for such restoration. To know where the divine name was replaced by the Greek words Ky′ri·os and The·os′, we have determined where the inspired Christian writers have quoted verses, passages and expressions from the Hebrew Scriptures and then we have referred back to the Hebrew text to ascertain whether the divine name appears there. In this way we determined the identity to give Ky′ri·os and The·os′ and the personality with which to clothe them. To avoid overstepping the bounds of a translator into the field of exegesis, we have been most cautious about rendering the divine name in the Christian Greek Scriptures, always carefully considering the Hebrew Scriptures as a background. We have looked for agreement from the Hebrew versions to confirm our rendering. Thus, out of the 237 times that we have rendered the divine name in the body of our translation, there is only one instance where we have no agreement from the Hebrew versions. But in this one instance, namely, 1Co 7:17, the context and related texts strongly support rendering the divine name. (Appendix 1D in the 1984 NWT Reference Ed.)

  Why the Hebrew translations should have any authority on this (superior to actual textual sources) is beyond me.

  Anyway, the NWT appendix lists the following J versions that interpolate a form of the tetragrammaton into Acts 12:23: J 7,8,10,13,15-18,22-24 .
• 

  Bobcat

  Leolaia:

  The thing is though, Paul directly compares the present situation with the situation of the Israelites in the wilderness who put God to the test and incited his wrath.

  Good point. I didn't look back at that.

  J Hofer:

  why did they use "jehovah" in Acts 12:23? it's no "old testament" quote

  Of the roughly 240 (I think its 237 exactly) times Jehovah is inserted into the NWT NT text, only about 80 are for OT quotations. That's only one out of three times. Yet, whenever they explain why they did it, its always because Jesus and the apostles would not have left it out of their OT quotes.

  Confounding the hypocrisy is the fact that in seven instances where the OT is being quoted, they leave the Name out because it doesn't jive with their theology. I guess the example of Jesus and the apostles only matters when you need a good reason.

  In reality, their explanation means nothing - to them. They did it simply because they felt like it. If no one would have complained, they wouldn't have needed to bother coming up with an explanation.

  Oh yea, the one about Herod WAS a good one.

  Note to myself:

  I still haven't figured out how to box up quotes!?
• 

  tec

  But God did not 'zap' them. They died. Shock, fear, something else... knowing they had blasphemed against the Holy Spirit (the one sin that will not be forgiven)... I don't know. Their flesh gave out upon discovery and knowledge of what they did and its ramifications, and they died.

  Nowhere in the account does it state that God killed them.

  And since we see God by looking THROUGH Christ (His image); when we have a doubt or a question about what God might have or would do... then we need only look (or ask, if one has the faith to do so) to His Image to have our answer. Christ did not strike a single soul down.

  That is how you know. That is the only way you know.

  Something might look as though 'God did it'; experts and scholars might conclude that 'God did it'; religions and its teachers might teach that God did it. How do they know? They cannot... not unless they are looking at Christ, to see God, to answer their questions of God; to teach them about God.

  Many people do not agree with this. But if you want truth... you have to look at/go to the Truth: Christ.

  Peace to you,

  tammy