by irondork 313 Replies latest watchtower bible
TEC said:
His words themselves (regarding love, golden rule, mercy, etc) speak against ownership of another person.
Oh, like when Jesus rejected the concept of slavery such that it seemed OBVIOUS to use slavery as a common motif, a recurrent thematic element, of so many of his parables? Rejecting it like that, huh? OK, gotcha, like when the evil servant in the FWS parable was cut to pieces for not following his owner's orders....
I really gotta take NewChapters side, there is nothing but a message sent that "god" sent this sentence upon them!
That wasn't directed at you---that was directed at anyone who would just accept what you are saying. Please use critical thinking skills.
Well hopefully no one accepts anything just because I say it.
Do use critical thinking skills. Do, if you have the faith and desire to, ask for understanding from Christ, yourself. I admittedly do not know the details... only that God did not 'zap' them dead (because I see God through Christ, his image). Nor does the account even state that God killed them.
That is an addition - reading it INTO the story. It is not there.
What sense does it make that a person could sin against holy spirit, and la la la, everything is fine---BUT if they are found out---bang, they die.
It is not that they were found out. It is that they were found out and forced to realize... themselves... that they could not hide what was within them from the Spirit that they professed union to.
How much have these scriptures been corrupted? One theory---that they died over time and not right away? (popular theory--WT used it for A & E) Anyway, then that would mean that scripture was extremely corrupted since it went on to say they were carried out right
away---dead.
I personally think they just died right away, as the story goes. I think the knowledge that you sinned against the Holy Spirit... one thing that cannot be forgiven and that you cannot hide from that Spirit, would be pretty hard on the flesh. Will to live and all that. I mean, people can have heart attacks over earth shattering knowledge as well, and a major heart attack can kill you pretty quick. So their flesh could simply have given out; not been able to handle what they were being forced to acknoweldge.
I could be wrong.
B ut I added another possibility (that the story was exaggerated, corrupted, etc) for some like you... who know God did not zap them... but who see no evidence for them just being able to drop dead either.
And IF it happened. Well you can't even be sure the account was even real
So why would you offer any explanation for it other than: It may or may not have happened, I only know God didn't do it. Because that's really all you got.
Well, that is basically all I've offered.
But the account says they died, and so I've offered possible reason how that could have happened as well.
According to you, the scriptures are so corrupt, then it is hard to argue that ANY of it should be believed in any way.
I have not said that they are SO corrupt. Only that they are not inerrant. So you gotta use those 'critical thinking' skills when reading them, for one. And... if you have faith and desire to do so... and want to know truth... you can ask THE truth: the Spirit of Christ.
I do not believe anything written in the bible, just because it is written in the bible. A lot of it, I would answer... I don't know. But I do know Christ, and I do know that He is the Image and Truth of God. Since He is the truth in a bucket of what can be (and is, in some cases) errant scriptures... I look to Him to guide me. Not according to what I want. Simply according to Him.
Peace,
tammy
Oh, like when Jesus rejected the concept of slavery such that it seemed OBVIOUS to use slavery as a common motif, a recurrent thematic element, of so many of his parables? Rejecting it like that, huh? OK, gotcha, like when the evil servant in the FWS parable was cut
to pieces for not following his owner's orders....
He used what they knew. That is the system they had, the world they understood. Those who listened to Him would come to realize just from listening to and following Him, that one cannot show love to someone if you enslave them, and mistreat them.
Peace,
tammy
First THIS:
That is an addition - reading it INTO the story. It is not there.
Then THIS:
It is not that they were found out. It is that they were found out and forced to realize... themselves... that they could not hide what was within them from the Spirit that they professed union to.
I really gotta take NewChapters side, there is nothing but a message sent that "god" sent this sentence upon them!
It seems like that, I think, because that is what people have taught about Him. Hell, that is what people are like. (hence the earlier comment about the mafia or cartel, I can't remember)
That false understanding of God is how so much gets muddied up to begin with. He is NOT like us. He does not do the things that WE do. You have to look at Christ to even start to get to know His Father. Start to know Christ (who shows us God) and you start seeing things in an entirely different light. There is just so much 'interference' from what has been taught through tradition and men who don't know, and religion taught by men who don't know... that it is hard to see past these 'images' that we have built of God, and see the one Image He actually has of Himself.
Peace,
tammy
True, NC, that is what I see into the story. I acknowledge that. I also think there is more to it than that as well, that i do not know anything about.
But I am not making a statement other than that God did not kill them.
To make or agree with a statement that God did kill them, I would think one would have to have more evidence than something that is read into the story.
Peace,
tammy
ZAP! ZAP! ZAP!
But I am not making a statement other than that God did not kill them.
I disagree. This was your statement, after telling us not to read things into the story:
It is not that they were found out. It is that they were found out and forced to realize... themselves... that they could not hide what was within them from the Spirit that they professed union to.
TEC said:
He used what they knew. That is the system they had, the world they understood. Those who listened to Him would come to realize just from listening to and following Him, that one cannot show love to someone if you enslave them, and mistreat them.
And how very sad that the living embodiment of God's love and grace, his only begotten Son, didn't deem it necessary to offer a better quality of life for humanity at that time and in the future, perhaps by teaching basics of food and water safety, hand-washing, or even the germ theory of disease. Instead, he performed a few magic tricks, made a few jugs of wine out of water, and is claimed to have fed thousands at single meal.
Tammy, have you ever heard of Norman Borlaug?
He's called "the Father of the Green Revolution", as he developed drought-resistant semi-dwarf, high-yielding, disease-resistant wheat varieties. He is often credited with saving over a billion people worldwide from starvation. [ 6 ] He was awarded the Nobel Peace Prize in 1970 in recognition of his contributions to world peace through increasing food supply.
He was only a mere mortal, a son of humans, not God, but he managed to leave the World a much better place in the here and now (and he didn't rely on his Dad).
