by irondork 313 Replies latest watchtower bible
Did Jesus change his father's personality?
He did not. You are absolutely correct about that. But what He did do... was to show us where we were wrong, and reveal to us the TRUTH of His father. Men were wrong in who they thought God was... God was never anyone other than who Christ shows Him to be.
Peace,
tammy
Seriously, your argument is that a man and his wife just dropped dead, 3 hours apart, from fear or shock, in the exact same and abrupt manner because they had sinned and were called out? That is your serious argument? They just keeled over, separate from each other, because their sin was called out? That really happens? Does it happen all the time? Can we test it?
Did you think this through?
A man and his wife conspired to misrepresent themselves and got accused publicly hours apart and they responded by just dropping dead on the spot. Hours apart and without knowledge of the others demise.
With a straight face.
Something might look as though 'God did it'; experts and scholars might conclude that 'God did it'; religions and its teachers might teach that God did it. How do they know? They cannot. ....tec
This is the truth in so many ways...LOL
But God did not 'zap' them. They died. Shock, fear, something else... knowing they had blasphemed against the Holy Spirit (the one sin that will not be forgiven)... I don't know. Their flesh gave out upon discovery and knowledge of what they did and its ramifications, and they died.
That's flawed thinking I believe Tammy, because the account goes on to say that "great fear came over the whole congregation and over all those hearing about these things" after Ananias died, and the statement was repeated after Sapphira died. Why would the congregation become fearful after this event if the couple died of simply shock? It's similar to a cartel hit in broad daylight, or a prison stabbing in front of the guards. It's not just about the hit, but it's also about sending a message. Make no mistake about it, Ananias and Sapphira's death was a hit, and a strong message was sent out to the rest of the congregation.
Because it was never written that Jesus ever zapped anyone dead for disobedience, therefore his father would never, ever, ever zap anyone nor order such zapping. Because it was never written (although one could argue that it was written, but that would be a corrupted account that was twisted.) And his father will never, ever, ever zap anyone in the future (although it is written, it is a lie).
Jesus never spoke out against slavery (it was never written) but that doesn't mean he didn't it only means it wasn't written.
And finally, it happens all the time. When Judas betrayed Jesus, and he thought about what he had done, he dropped dead on the spot. When Jesus called out the Pharisees for their dastardly deeds, they dropped dead on the spot. Defendents waltz into courtrooms and have their crimes laid out for them, and they just drop dead for us.
We have a long history of people just dropping dead on the spot for doing bad things. This is a totally reasonable argument.
PLEEEEZZZZEEEEEE use critical thinking skills when you read this defense. THINK about it. Does it make any sense whatsoever? Do you see the evidence for it? Please don't just accept it because it calms your doubts and you can work it to make it fit and make you comfortable.
People don't drop dead for being called out. They just don't. And to say that a husband and wife simply expired independently of each other and hours apart is Just. Not. Logical.
If you want to go with the bible, then do so. How many people simply dropped dead for disobeying? Is that what happened to Uzzah? Why Uzzah and nobody else? Why not the pharisees, why not Judas? Just think.
NC, see the one thing we agree upon... is that God did not 'zap' them dead. You, because you don't believe in God. Me, because I see God through Christ.
So in that regard, if they did actually die, it was from some other means than God. Or the story did not happen exactly as written, but got added to, etc, as often happens. So that no one 'dropped dead' like that at all. Perhaps over time. Perhaps they were cut off... and 'dead' in that sense, which eventually became written as to dropping dead.
Either way, whatever you might believe or choose to believe... there is no evidence that God zapped them dead.
Why would the congregation become fearful after this event if the couple died of simply shock?
Fearful because of the seriousness of having blasphemed against the HS. Death in such a manner would bring about fear to most people.
Because it was never written that Jesus ever zapped anyone dead for disobedience, therefore his father would never, ever, ever zap anyone nor order such zapping. Because it was never written (although one could argue that it was written, but that would be a corrupted account that was twisted.) And his father will never, ever, ever zap anyone in the future (although it is written, it is a lie).
Well, think about a couple things for a moment. If judgment is reserved for a future time, even if you were going to 'zap' people... why do it now, when judgment comes at a future appointed time?
Jesus never spoke out against slavery (it was never written) but that doesn't mean he didn't it only means it wasn't written.
His words themselves (regarding love, golden rule, mercy, etc) speak against ownership of another person.
And finally, it happens all the time. When Judas betrayed Jesus, and he thought about what he had done, he dropped dead on the spot. When Jesus called out the Pharisees for their dastardly deeds, they dropped dead on the spot. Defendents waltz into courtrooms and have their crimes laid out for them, and they just drop dead for us.
Blaspheming against the holy spirit is the only 'unforgivable'. Perhaps because it comes from a place of darkness within the heart of a person. So if you knew that you had committed the unforgivable (and could not hide it - or lie about it as Sapphira and Ananaias attempted to do), well, that is a lot different than having your sins pointed out. You can ask forgiveness for those. They can be 'covered' over.
I'm not sure if it was so much the sin, or the fact that they realized that their sin could not be hidden from the spirit... it was against the spirit.
PLEEEEZZZZEEEEEE use critical thinking skills when you read this defense. THINK about it. Does it make any sense whatsoever? Do you see the evidence for it? Please don't just accept it because it calms your doubts and you can work it to make it fit and make you comfortable.
You assume that I have doubts or 'uncomfortableness'.
I have doubts about the precision in the retelling of the account, or in not understanding how two people can just die. But I do not have doubts about seeing God through Christ, so I do not have to fear that God is someone other than Christ showed Him to be, regardless of some words we have written down that some think are in conflict with that Image.
People don't drop dead for being called out. They just don't. And to say that a husband and wife simply expired independently of each other and hours apart is Just. Not. Logical.
I agree. They do not. But that is not what I said could have happened.
If you want to go with the bible, then do so.
When have you ever known me to go with the bible, over going with Christ, lol?
Peace,
tammy
You assume that I have doubts or 'uncomfortableness'.
That wasn't directed at you---that was directed at anyone who would just accept what you are saying. Please use critical thinking skills.
What sense does it make that a person could sin against holy spirit, and la la la, everything is fine---BUT if they are found out---bang, they die.
How much have these scriptures been corrupted? One theory---that they died over time and not right away? (popular theory--WT used it for A & E) Anyway, then that would mean that scripture was extremely corrupted since it went on to say they were carried out right away---dead.
And IF it happened. Well you can't even be sure the account was even real. So why would you offer any explanation for it other than: It may or may not have happened, I only know God didn't do it. Because that's really all you got. According to you, the scriptures are so corrupt, then it is hard to argue that ANY of it should be believed in any way. Who can recognize the few pieces of truth in a bucket of lies? All you can do is pick each of them out and decide which ones YOU want to be true. Not much guidance there.
So we fall back on hearing the voice of the Lord. And who can argue or even defend that?
I really don't get this god............... these 2 were nice enough to give their $$$$.
but, he kills them because they lied and only gave them half?
isn't half better than nothing? WT is not getting any of my $$$$ for quite a few years running!
I haven't seen God strike me down, I was even a glorified and approved MS while I was doubting and giving no $$$$$
awful god, who would serve him!
like NewChapter said.............. I agree
I really gotta take NewChapters side, there is nothing but a message sent that "god" sent this sentence upon them!
any other explanation is just "apologism"
If god needs you to apologize for him, then?
