WT U-Turn on "Great Crowd" (May 1, 20...

by stevieb1 52 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  LittleToe

  Frenchy:
  I hope you post your opinion on what the F&DS. It would be interesting to discuss.

  Gozz:
  "You must remember that statistics has never impressed God, The Society has severally stated this, but numbers play some role in the outworking of the dicvine purpose. Can you deny that?"

  I can read your question two ways, just like the Wt reads the bible.
  1. If you are saying that the society has stated that statistics don't impress God, but nonetheless their numbers play a role in the divine purpose, I would deny this.
  2. If you are saying that numbers (in general) play some role in the divine purpose, then that has to be a given, since God has proved to be a great mathematician.

  I'd love to see you do the chronology for 1935, as I find no evidence for it.
  FYI, I am post 1935 anointed, and got the heck out of that corrupt and devious man-made organization!
  Usually, numbers add up - unless thay come from Brooklyn!

  This "Question From Readers", along with the recent study articles leading up to the memorial, have more holes in them than a string vest!
  More evidence of the Pharisee's shutting up heaven from their listeners.
• 

  Will Power

  Question:

  "When John saw the "great crowd" rendering sacred service in Jehovah's temple..........

  This "sacred service", is this WT study? or door-to-door work?
  Will the "sacred service" in the temple (on earth) be the same as it is today in the KH on earth? Will the FDS still feed the crowd?
  Which hi-liter color will be used?

  Serious questions
• 

  Justin

  Frenchy,

  I think you are correct that the original "great crowd" came from people who were already interested in the "truth" in some way. The ones who already believed they were of the second heavenly class, though, would have already been baptized. This class would have been considered to be "cast offs" from the "little flock," and people who were less zealous, or else very humble, may have believed that they belonged to this class. When the earthly hope was held out to them, they simply stopped partaking of the emblems.

  Another class of people were those who showed some interest but, because they never did get baptized, would have been considered the "Restitution Class" in Russell's time. In other words, they did not want to run for the heavenly prize, so they didn't run for any prize at all but simply waited with the world to be restored to human perfection under the Kingdom. Rutherford changed all that, and they got baptized.

  What the WT has never admitted is that many stopped partaking of the emblems once the "great crowd" was identified as earthly. I remember an elderly sister telling me this. Also, there is a chart in the "Proclaimers" book which indicates a rapid drop in Memorial partakers when the "great crowd" was identified. Someone should do some research on this and see if there is any hard evidence that can be recovered for historical purposes.

  Justin
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  Frenchy

  Little Toe: I will seriously consider it. I was interested to learn that you are (were?) of the anointed.

  Justin: That part of JW history is foggy to me inasmuch as I was not around at the time. What one reads from the literature has been carefully 'dressed'in such a manner that it's difficult at times to say what really happened. I appreciate your comments and what you say does make sense with what I already know.

  Every religious organization needs an elite, ruling class. And, of course, of what value are rulers if you don't have someone to rule. That distinction between the shepherds and the sheep has to be maintained in order for the organization to function. I don't see the society changing that.

  Given their past record, they will ride the horse until it drops and then pretend that either it did not exist or that it really wasn't a horse at all!
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  Room 215

  Hi all,

  Frenchy's observations on the 144,000 and FDS business are in my opinion quite sound. Rutherford's concoction of the current teaching in the 1930s was in reality an ad-hoc rationalization to explain away the large influx of new Witnesses, which if it were to continue (and that it did) would invalidate the teaching as then understood.

  It's the sort of reactive (as opposed to proactive) ``adjustments'' to salvage certain core teachings that continues until this day... the switch on ``this generation'' is probably the most recent example.
• 

  LittleToe

  Room215:
  Agreed.

  Frenchy:
  What's the interest re: anointed? There are a few on the board.
  I've spoken to ones in and out of the borg. Not many stay in.
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  Frenchy

  I was wondering if you still feel a part of an elite group chosen to go to heaven.
• 

  ozziepost

  Room215: Agree

  Justin: You seem to be still influenced by the WTS with its "class" theology. (Sorry if I misunderstand you.)

  Cheers,
  Ozzie

  "If our hopes for peace are placed in the hands of imperfect people, they are bound to evaporate."

  
  - Ron Hutchcraft Surviving the Storms of Stress
• 

  Justin

  ozziepost,

  No, when I refer to WT history I use their own categories - specifically, what classes were originally thought to exist and how this came to be changed to today's classes.

  Justin
• 

  LittleToe

  Frenchy:
  Hmmm - I don't like the word "elite", since it smacks of elitism.
  Most "anointed" I know are VERY humbled by it, not considering themselves to be elite or superior in any way.

  Most consider a personal relationship with their Father and their Lord, to be the most important factor.

  The "heavenly hope" part is incidental, since who've been there?