Did Jehovah give Noah a specific command to warn others of the flood? (page 2)

Black Sheep

If he did, it wasn't made clear in the Bible.

ziddina

"I don't think Noah did much witnessing, really. If he had woken up the Nephilim on a Saturday morning they would have beaten him up, lol." Transhuman 68

No, no, Noah would have had angels accompanying him out in "service"... angel

Of course he didn't! He depended on Nephilim labor to help him build the enormous GOPHER 3000. Telling them "Jehovah doesn't like your kind, you're ALL GONNA DROWN!" wouldn't have helped. And he knew there was no room for Nephilim on the ark unless he ditched the giraffes or elephants.

ziddina

yeah, Leolaia, that's one of the funniest aspects of the story...

That god somehow 'forced' the Nephilim to help Noah build the ark!!

Wasn't there some connection between the Nephilim - I guess I should say, drowned nephilim - and the Djinn?? Or was it the group of fallen angels who became djinn after they shed their mortal bodies in order to avoid drowning??

jam

Hoser excellent point. Gen. 6 God gave Noah specific

instruction for the building of the Ark, and guess what

built only for Noah and his family.

Don,t remerber how long it took Noah to construct the Ark,

something like 40yrs. So if God knew no one would listen to

Noah, why did he command him to warn the people.

Forty years of preaching not one soul. Not one word from

God , listen Noah new instruction we need to make the

Ark larger. Attendance in the KH is increasing. Maybe the

time spent on building the Ark, Noah figured it wasn,t necessary

to go out and knock on doors. Iam sure the people in the

village notice the project. They would simplly walk by, what,s

up Noah? The flood is coming, you have been warn.

Ok Noah lay off the wine.

ziddina

Darnnit! I guess Leolaia's gone to bed...

I found this link - perhaps a decent one - the poster goes into a detailed explanation of how the legends of the Nephilim and the jinn have intermingled in middle eastern mythology...

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20071006173035AAwy3qM

I'm going to post a few paragraphs from her reply - it's a long one...

"Djinni - Creatures that are half-human and half-demon from pre-Islamic times. Originally, they were spirits of nature that caused madness in humans. They differ not much from humans: they reproduce, they have the same bodily needs, and they die, although their life span is much longer. The Arabic word jinn, which means "spirit", is neutral--some of the jinni serve Allah, while others do not. The Arabs believed the jinni often took the form of ostriches, or rode them. Dalila, Samson's treacherous mistress, rode an ostrich.

There are five orders of genies: the Marid (the most powerful), the Afrit, the Shaitan, the Jinn, and the Jann (the least powerful).

Jinni can do good or evil, are mischievous and enjoy punishing humans for wrongs done them, even unintentionally. Thus accidents and diseases are considered to be their work. They are composed of fire or air and they can assume both animal and human form. They exist in air, in flame, under the earth and in inanimate objects, such as rocks, trees and ruins. In the stories of the "Thousand and One Nights" a jinn often inhabits an old, battered oil lamp. After rubbing the lamp three times, it will appear and grants the holder of the lamp three wishes. A forth wish will undo the previous three.

Also singular Djinn or Jinnee, plural Djinni or Jineeyeh (Jin and Jinx are other variants). Arabian spirits, perhaps animistic, but more probably accurately mythological like the Persian divs. The word is usually translated as meaning approximately elementals although they are fearsome and frequently portrayed as monstrous demons. It is also likely that the word genii comes from Jinn.

The Jinn were created out of fire, and populated the earth for many thousands of years before Adam and Eve. They were perverse and vicious, and would not reform, although prophets were sent to salvage them. Unrepentant, they were eventually driven from the earth, and took refuge in the outlying islands of the sea.

One of them named Azazel (afterwards called Iblees or Eblis) was carried off as a prisoner by the angels. He then grew up amongst them, and eventually became their chief. But refusing, when commanded by God, to prostrate himself before Adam, he was degraded to the condition of a Sheytân or Shaitan, and becomes the father of the sheytâns, or devils.

The Jinn are not immortal, but destined ultimately to die. They eat and drink and propagate their species, living in communities, and are ruled over by princes.

Invariably, jinn are supernatural beings of flame or air capable of taking on human or animal form. They are said to dwell in any conceivable inanimate object (stones, trees, ruins), underneath the earth, in the air, and in fire. Although supernatural, jinn possess the physical needs of human beings and can be killed. Jinni are generally monstrous, evil demons, but some are beautiful and perform good deeds for humans. Jinni often serve a summoner who knows the correct magical words or gesture, as in the tale of Aladdin's lamp. However, those not in servitude delight in punishing humans for intentional or unintentional harm done to them. Jinni are said to be responsible for many diseases and all kinds of accidents. The ruler of the jinn is Suleiman, or Solomon, and the foremost of them is Iblis, the prince of darkness.

An angel (Lat. angelus, pl. angeli) is a supernatural being found in many religions. In Christianity, Islam, Judaism, and Zoroastrianism, angels, as attendants or guardians to man, typically act as messengers from God.

Angelology (from Greek: aγγελος, angel, "angel"; and λ?γος, logos, "study") is a branch of theology that deals with a hierarchical system of angels, messengers, celestial powers or emanations, and the study of these systems. It primarily relates to Kabbalistic Judaism and Christianity, where it is one of the ten major branches of theology, albeit an often neglected one.

Some secular scholars believe that Judeo-Christianity owes a great debt to Zoroastrianism in regards to the introduction of angelology and demonology, as well as the fallen angel Satan as the ultimate agent of evil, comparing him to the evil spirit Ahriman. As the Iranian Avestan and Vedic traditions and also other branches of Indo-European mythologies show, the notion of demons had existed long before.

In Zoroastrianism there are different angel-like animals. For example, each person has a guardian angel, called Fravashi. They patronize human beings and other creatures, and also manifest God's energy. Also, the Amesha Spentas have often been regarded as angels (they don't convey messages), but are rather emanations of Ahura Mazda ("Wise Lord", God); they appear in an abstract fashion in the religious thought of Zarathustra and then later (during the Achaemenid period of Zoroastrianism) became personalized, associated with an aspect of the divine creation (fire, plants, water,magic, being happy...).

The Biblical name for angel, ???? ("mal'ach"), obtained the further signification of "angel" only through the addition of God's name, as "angel of the Lord," or "angel of God" (Zechariah 12:8). Other appellations are "Sons of God", (Genesis 6:4; Job 1:6 [R. V. v. 1]) and "the Holy Ones" (Psalm 89:6-8).

According to Jewish interpretation, 'Elohim is almost entirely reserved for the one true God; but at times 'Elohim (powers), bnei 'Elohim, bnei Elim (sons of gods) were general terms for beings with great power (e.g. judges).

Angels are referred to as "holy ones" Zechariah 14:5 and "watchers" Daniel 4:13. They are spoken of as the "host of heaven" Deuteronomy 17:3 or of "Adonai" Joshua 5:14. The "hosts," ????? Tzevaot in the title Adonai Tzevaot (alternatively, Adonai Tzivo'ot), Lord of Hosts, were probably at one time identified with the angels. The identification of the "hosts" with the stars comes to the same thing; the stars were thought of as being closely connected with angels. However, God is very jealous of the distinction between Himself and angels, and consequently, the Hebrews were forbidden by Moses to worship the "host of heaven". It is probable that the "hosts" were also identified with the armies of Israel, whether this army is human, or angelic. The New Testament often speaks of "spirits," πνε?ματα (Revelation 1:4).

According to secular scholars, in early Hebrew thought, God appears and speaks directly to individuals (Genesis 3:8, Exodus 12:1). He also intervenes in human affairs, often acting punitively and violently (Genesis 22ff.; Exodus 4:24, 14:4; 2 Samuel 24:1: Psalm 78:31ff.) God's nature reflects the mores of nomadic people. Under the influence of Zoroastrianism and by postexilic prophets and writers , these earlier conceptions were revised to reflect a new theodicy which explained evil without directly implicating God. As the result, God became both more distant and more merciful. Angels and demons replaced him in his encounters with men, and Satan assumed his destructive powers (cf. 2 Samuel 24:1 with 1 Chronicles 21:1).[3]

Prior to the emergence of monotheism in Israel the idea of an angel was the Malach Adonai, Angel of the Lord, or Malach Elohim, Angel of God. The Malach Adonai is an appearance or manifestation of God in the form of a man, and the term Malach Adonai is used interchangeably with Adonai (God). (cf. Exodus 3:2, with 3:4; Exodus 13:21 with Exodus 14:19). Those who see the Malach Adonai say they have seen God (Genesis 32:30; Judges 13:22). The Malach Adonai (or Elohim) appears to Abraham, Hagar, Moses, Gideon, etc., and leads the Israelites in the Pillar of Cloud (Exodus 3:2). The phrase Malach Adonai may have been originally a courtly circumlocution for the Divine King; but it readily became a means of avoiding anthropomorphism, and later on, when angels were classified, the Malach Adonai meant an angel of distinguished rank. The identification of the Malach Adonai with the Logos, (said by Christians to be the Second Person of the Trinity), is not indicated by the references in the Hebrew scriptures; but the idea of a Being partly identified with God, and yet in some sense distinct from him, illustrates a tendency of Jewish religious thought to distinguish persons within the unity of the deity. Whilst some Christians say that this foreshadows the doctrine of the Trinity, Kabbalist Jews would show how it developed into kabbalistic theological thought and imagery. And Although the Jews believed that this was done...faith had it for one more, again the Malach Adonai.

Once the doctrine of monotheism was formally expressed, in the period immediately before and during the Exile (Deuteronomy 6:4-5 and Isaiah 43:10), we find angels prominent in the Book of Ezekiel. Ezekiel, as a prophet of the Exile, may have been influenced by the hierarchy of supernatural beings in the Babylonian religion, and perhaps even by the angelology of Zoroastrianism (it is not, however, certain that these doctrines of Zoroastrianism were developed at so early a date). Ezekiel 9 gives elaborate descriptions of cherubim (a class, or type of angels); and in one of his visions, he sees seven angels execute the judgment of God upon Jerusalem. As in Genesis, they are styled "men"; malach, for "angel", does not occur in Ezekiel. Somewhat later, in the visions of Zechariah, angels play a great part; they are sometimes spoken of as "men", sometimes as malach, and the Malach Adonai seems to hold a certain primacy among them Zechariah 1:11. The Satan also appears to prosecute (so to speak) the High Priest before the divine tribunal (Zechariah 3:1). Similarly in the Book of Job the bnei Elohim, sons of God, appear, and amongst them, Satan (Hebrew ha-satan), again in the role of public prosecutor, the defendant being Job (Job 1, HE. Cf. 1 Chronicles 21:1). Occasional references to "angels" occur in the Psalter (Psalms 91:11, 103:20 etc.); they appear as ministers of God.

Psalm 78:49 speaks of "evil angels" (Authorized Version) or "angels of evil" (Judaica Press). "Evil" here is not meant in the moral sense, but in the sense of opposition.

Very interesting..

I'll have to read - and maybe post - the rest tomorrow.

Average person of the day: "hey, there's a TON of rain coming."

Person #2: "Noted."

Average Person of the day: "Hey! We're being swept away!"

Person #2: "Noted.....gurgle, gurgle, gurgle..."

Farkel

Finkelstein

As the story goes Yahweh found that Noah and his family were the only people seen by him to be righteously pure.

Really ? no one else ? absolutely everyone else were all wicked ?

Strangely they were still imperfect by the blood of Adam and Eve were they not ?

Wasn't Yahweh wicked himself for killing so many innocent people ?

Oh the tales that men tell !

Did Jehovah give Noah a specific command to warn others of the flood?

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