Apostasy Trial - Part 4 (page 2)

NewChapter

LOL---Do you recognize the authority of this committee!

I watched the whole thing. I was riveted. I mean...it was so much like my own committee that I started to feel flashbacks, man. But you handled yourself extremely well. It was very clear that they were trying to get you to answer that $10,000 Question: Do you believe this is God's organization? Do you want to be one of Jehovah's Witnesses? They wanted the answer so they could let the hammer fall. And you were floatin' like a butterfly and stingin' like a bee! Ha ha!

What was troubling to me was when you were talking about your own personal trials with your marriage and all, they said something that sounded like they should have the right to decide who the victim was in your situation. Small wonder how they must handle cases of rape... Suddenly when you have a real and deep problem, "confidentiality" is cited as a reason not to be a support for you during that time. Says a lot about what kind of shepherds they really are (hired men)...

As always, the elders' response when you pointed out obvious contradictions in doctrine and false teachings, was to say they just plain didn't care. "God is using us because this is the truth", "I haven't found anything better", etc. Same things the elders said to me, same exact things. So every other religion is browbeat in the pages of the Watchtower for every mistake they've made since 325 A.D., but Jehovah's Witnesses get a free pass for stuff they said and did for the entire last century. Somehow they are more special.

"Jesus is our Mediator through the faithful slave". I never thought I would hear anyone actually say it. It chills me to the bone. Where in the Bible does it say that association with 'the anointed' is what leads to our relationship with God? A good thing to point out at this point is that twice this year that I can recall, the Society has said that the anointed will help Jesus apply the value of the ransom to our sins during the Thousand Year Reign. How? Where is the scripture that says that? There isn't one. Never has been. It's made up. We have to remember that 'anointed' is actually a translation of the term 'Christ'/'Messiah'. They're saying pretty clearly that they are assistant-Christs, Jesus chose them to help him do what he apparently never did in heaven ONCE FOR ALL TIME with his own blood. Forget Hebrews 9:24-28! Throw it out!

I'm amazed at how well you handled this. The pain of that situation, it just...it's like an emotional memory got triggered inside me, you know? I felt it, like I was there with you. But you know, Jehovah's Witnesses believe they are exclusively God's people, exclusively Christians, exclusively preaching about the Kingdom (all while minimizing Jesus Christ into an archangel and an equal to men who haven't even gone to heaven, who are still on earth --begun ruling as kings much?), etc. It's called 'demand for purity', I think.

I find it, well, cognitive dissonance is the only explanation I can think of, as to the elder saying he was 'hurt' by your letter saying you didn't want to deal with some sort of tribunal/star chamber kind of thing. All while sitting...in a star chamber tribunal...in judgment of you. You know, they read similar opening scriptures to me (I think the one they did for me was Prov. 28:13)--basically, you're already guilty in our eyes, so...just admit it. But oh no! We weren't trying to say you're guilty! We're not trying to intimidate you!

You know, if a person has legitimate doubts about this organization, the judicial committee process really removes all doubt as to the nature of this religion. You no longer wonder if something is wrong, there is no more confusion. Everything that it truly is gets laid bare and exposed for you to see. And that, my friends, is why they do not handle these trials in public. It would be far too dangerous for everyone to see exactly how it really is.

It's an honor to know you, man, and to identify with your experience. I mean, not that I know you personally, just...watching your videos I totally get where you're coming from. I hope you're doing alright with all this. That committee, in my experience, is a very traumatic thing to face.

Oh yeah, those baptism questions:

BEFORE:

*** w567/1p.407pars.20-21WhyOneMustBeBaptized***

20 (1) Have you recognized yourself before Jehovah God as a sinner who needs salvation, and have you acknowledged to him that this salvation proceeds from him the Father through his Son Jesus Christ?

21 (2) On the basis of this faith in God and in his provision for salvation, have you dedicated yourself unreservedly to God to do his will henceforth as he reveals it to you through Jesus Christ and through the Bible under the enlightenment of the holy spirit?

AFTER:

*** w856/1p.30SubjectingOurselvestoJehovahbyDedication***

At the close of the convention baptism talk, the baptism candidates will be in position to answer with depth of understanding and heartfelt appreciation two simple questions that serve to confirm that they recognize the implications of following Christ’s example. The first question is:

On thebasisofthesacrificeofJesusChrist,haveyourepentedofyoursinsanddedicatedyourselftoJehovahtodohiswill?

The second is:

Do youunderstandthatyourdedicationandbaptismidentifyyouasoneofJehovah’sWitnessesinassociationwithGod’sspirit-directedorganization?

Having answered yes to these questions, candidates are in a right heart condition to undergo Christian baptism.

Had to post that here, since it was brought up in your conversation with them. Hope it helps anyone who isn't sure.

--sd-7

sseveninches

Is Jesus your mediator? "Absolutely, through the faithful slave!"

Well folks, that just about wraps it up. If you still had any doubts about the WT being a sham, this should just about wipe those doubts out.

Jehovah>"Faithful Slave">Jesus>Everyone else. This is fantastic. Jesus doesn't even really belong in that sequence according to them...but I put it there since it was brought up.

mind blown

be back...making coco for this one......

Tylinbrando

Thank you Ray.

mind blown

Thank you for sharing your vid Ray You did excellent.

I hope others see the reality of the situation when meeting with the Elders. The Mc Carthy reference was golden. You could have danced with them for hours on end but the result would have been the same. Oh what also got me is when the elder said you can think different ideas, but you can't say them! Where in the bible does it say you'll be DF'd for speaking up.......

Let's hope sooner rather then later all will be exposed!

RayPublisher

@Flipper - Ok you get the MVP for this thread for getting us switched on lol...

@NewChapter - Yeah they really said that...that phrase is referenced in the Flock/Shepherd book actually so you can't blame them for mentioning it hehe. ...And BTW I love your screename!

@SD-7 - Dude you and I need to talk lol! It's like we are twins separated at birth... Thanks for the help on those Qs...I kinda bobbled that one a bit but they got the gist of it!

@sseveninches - I know- it was sooooo frustrating to me that he couldn't just say Jesus was his mediator...depressing really, bc that's the JW problem in a nutshell right now- they are captive to these men, lock stock and barrel.

@Tylinbrando - De nada hermano!

(I sometimes spontaneously burst out in Espanol, and I'm not even Spanish/Mexican)

tootired2care

Thanks RP! I just watched the whole thing, this is good stuff, you made many strong arguments. I feel I have more courage after seeing you in the lions dens calmly defending your beliefs like that. I thought you made a fantastic rebuttal about who has Christ put as the older men of his flock and your response about who he used in the 1,600's, 1500's, that seemed to really catch them off guard. It highlights the total arrogance of the claim that the WT$ was selected in 1918.

never a jw

As an outsider (never been a JW, only took a bible study 18 years ago and stumped a C.O. in the process) or a neutral party to the beef between WTS and apostates I am going to claim to be a disinterested party and render my veredict.

Eric, you definitely looked in control of the meeting and certainly kicked their butt. A very dignified exit you performed.

freydo

What Pastor Russell Said p 479

Meetings Elders in Court of Inquiry Questions 1916

"Is it proper for the elders to sit at a court of inquiry and cite any supposed to be walking in a disorderly manner to appear before them and explain their conduct?" Or should the Lord's advice at Matt 18:15-18 be followed?

Answer - "I agree with the suggestion of the question that it should be handled in harmony with the Lord's direction in the passage cited. The Lord's word does not authorize any court of the Elders, or anyone else, to become busybodies. THis would be going back to the practices of the Dark Ages during the inquisition; and we would be showing the same spirit as did the inquisitors. The Lord has put the matter in a simple way and we could not improve upon it......We should remember the word of the Lord which says, 'The Lord will judge his people.' If he should need any punishment, we may trust the Lord to give it to him and not take the matter into our own hands. We should have confidence in the Lord. If we can stop the wrong that is as far as we can go. But if the wrong doer should persist in his wrong-doing and not repent, and if the matter should be of sufficient importance, then we are to bring the matter to the attention of the of the Church for correction. We should not bring any small or trifling matter. It is my judgment that 3/4 of the things which are brought to my attention - had better be dropped."

Apostasy Trial - Part 4

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