Sam Harris - On the Freedom to Offend an Imaginary God

by cofty 93 Replies latest social current

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  King Solomon

  NC said:

  If the govenment regulates speech against Islam, then they have won.

  Huh? I never supported regulating speech against anyone in particular (and in fact such targeting based on content or who is speaking WOULD be unconstitutional, in-and-of-itself). The government may regulate time, place, and manner of the exercise of free speech, but NOT regulate the content of the message: that would be in violation of principles of free speech.

  I'm simply explaining the fact that ALL forms of free speech have limits, and these ARE regulated by the gov't in order to ensure public safety. That's just a basic principle of free speech law which the SCOTUS has repeatedly upheld for a century, most recently in the case of Westboro Baptist where they noted that the group complied with all laws and met with Police and the funeral home to agree as to the time, place, and manner of the protest, and then respected those limits.
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  botchtowersociety

  "Sick to the back teeth"

  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GCXHPKhRCVg
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  King Solomon

  Oh, and even content SHOULD be regulated, IMO. There is speech that currently isn't allowed (eg communicating a death threat, exactly the offense dod which those Islamists were sentenced to prison, in the South Park case). I think it's reasonable to say that limits must exist for other content (hate speech, bomb threats, etc).
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  Diest

  Great vid BTS. I have said for a while you can't give people freedom of religion when they want to deny your freedom of speech. All of our rights are a 2 way street, you have to give them to get them.
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  cofty

  I wish Pat Condell would get off the bloody fence.
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  Diest

  Tammy, Muslims are not a race. When will people learn the difference between bigotry and racism?

  .

  PS I freely admit to a bigotry against Islam and several other religious groups. I love Arab Atheists, I am not fond of Arab Muslims....bigoted yes...racist, no.
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  tec

  Tammy seems concerned about lumping extremists with moderates; I'm not sure why.

  Really? You're not sure why?

  When people start looking at every Muslim as an extremist and a terrorist (or even as a potential extremist or terrorist or even as people who approve of extremists and terrorism), then that is a problem. That leads to hate and fear of an entire group of people for the actions of some (that the others speak against) That leads to propoganda, which we have plenty of, and that in turn leads to even more suspicion.

  So yes, i am concerned about lumping an entire group of people in together. When it is obvious that they are not all together, if you but look.

  I also agree that moderates are not laughing it off. It is as insulting to them as anyone else. They just aren't going to lop your head off for it.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  cofty

  it is obvious that they are not all together, if you but look. - Tammy

  Yes I know that and never said otherwise. The thread is about standing up to extremists without compromise. I couldn't care less if moderate Muslims are offended or not as long as they respond in word and not in deed. That's how civilised people behave.

  Not all Muslims are terrorists but mostly its true to say that terrorists are Muslims.
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  tec

  Tammy, Muslims are not a race. When will people learn the difference between bigotry and racism?

  Very well then.

  I would suggest that people will probably learn the difference when they don't look so similar.

  Peace,

  tammy
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  tec

  Not all Muslims are terrorists but mostly its true to say that terrorists are Muslims.

  "Mostly".... it is true to say?

  It is true that there are muslim terrorists. But mostly it is true to say that there are terrorists of all kinds of people. With the probable exception of buddhist terrorists.

  Now there is nothing wrong to standing up to extremists or terrorists, and it should be done, I agree. But if you don't care who gets hurt in the way that you stand up to them... well, how responsible or just is that of you?

  Peace,

  tammy