I've listened to moderate muslims interviewed, and they agree that the penalty for blashphemy does carry the death penalty, according to their religion, but they just don't have the will to carry it out. I wonder if they are objecting to the out of control violence, but not the death penalty in countries that dole it out through the courts. And then I have to ask myself if the moderates also support such notions and make way for extremists. I believe that any moderate can become an extremist. I see it happen all the time with moderate Christians.
Sam Harris - On the Freedom to Offend an Imaginary God
by cofty 93 Replies latest social current
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cofty
mostly it is true to say that there are terrorists of all kinds of people - Tammy
It is disingenuous of you to imply that terrorism is no more of an issue among Muslims than other communities.
The behaviour we condemn is predicated on Muslim doctrines. Thank god the majority of Muslims don't take their religion seriously.
if you don't care who gets hurt...
Why are you distorting my position?
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tec
And if anyone does not see the danger in grouping them all together and judging them all as one for the actions of the extremists, then you haven't read people saying that we should just nuke them; wipe them all out, kill them all, kick them out of the country (including those who ARE US citizens), etc, etc.
History has shown us what happens when we give into OR incite fear of an entire group of people. It would be nice if we could learn from our past.
So that is what I'm speaking against.
It would be nice if people were focused more on tolerance and respect of others (all people, atheist and believer alike). And you know what, a great many people are. But it is the ones who aren't who are going to cause trouble for those who are... believer of any sort, and atheist alike.
Peace,
tammy
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cofty
It would be nice if people were focused more on tolerance and respect of others
Many of us have respect for all sorts of people but have zero repsect for risible and dangerous superstitions.
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tec
It is disingenuous of you to imply that terrorism is no more of an issue among Muslims than other communities.
It is no more of an issue than it has been in other communities. Which leads me to see that it is more politically motivated than anything else.
Why are you distorting my position?
I wasn't distorting your position. And I was speaking in general. And there ARE people who want them all to go, those people are ignorant sure, but so what? Good thing not all people in the west are judged by them, because if they had power and weapons, they'd be doing their best to fulfill their desires.
And these were your words, and perhaps I misunderstood:
I couldn't care less if moderate Muslims are offended or not as long as they respond in word and not in deed.
I know that doesn't mean that YOU wouldn't care if they were hurt in a crossfire. But it does mean that you don't care about trampling on something sacred to them in the process of responding to extremists, right?
Peace,
tammy
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NewChapter
True. But too often, having no respect for religious belief is translated as not having respect for people. It is sometimes hard to separate the two. I'm still working out how I view this to some extent. Even on this board, I'm watching those that at one time I may have thought of them as moderates, but they seem to becoming extreme in my eyes. For some reason, right now anyway, Islam is a million times more likely to lead to violence. I think politics plays a pretty big role in heating things up, that's for sure, but I can understand the impulse to want to take away the spark that usually sets things off. It wouldn't work of course, but when I don't even believe in superstitious things, it gets so incredibly tiresome to watch people killed over imaginary friends. It's heartbreaking and beyond ridiculous. It is very hard to stay balanced.
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tec
Many of us have respect for all sorts of people but have zero repsect for risible and dangerous superstitions.
I don't really think you can have all that much respect for a person, and then trash something or someone they love. Or maybe respect is the wrong word. Maybe it is just that you have no love for them. Perhaps that is the problem.
However, I also think that bigotry (while not a superstition) is risable and dangerous all on its own. Be it from a religious person or an atheist, and there are certainly bigots in both 'groups'.
Peace,
tammy
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NewChapter
You would not make such a statment if we were talking about politics, art, music, food.
And then you call in the issue of LOVE? I can't trash a food you like or I do not love you? I can't trash a band you love, or I do not love you? How about a political candidate? Can I come out and trash a candidate you love, or does that mean I don't love?
I hate professional sports. Can't stand them. Can't tolerate them. Can't stand hearing them on TV. Won't go to a game. Speak of them disrespectfully. I have many people in my life that just love them! They are a big part of their lives and even their identity. None of them accused me of not loving them because I absolutely hate what they hold dear. It would have been ignorant for them to have said such a thing. we just don't agree.
And that's where is makes no sense. You can't be nice about what I believe, even if what I believe is so beyond ridiculous to you, and that means you don't love/respect/care about me.
But it doesn't hold for any other opinion. Only religion. Well some of us don't think that religious opinion needs to be handled any differently than any other opinion. Would I deny a job, help, programs or rights to those with these differing opinions? NO! And you can look at my posts on this thread to see that. But that's not enough is it? I must also respect those beliefs or I don't love other people. And it's ignorant statements like this that just drive us crazy.
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cofty
ditto what NC just said.
I was off making creme caramels thinking about how to repsond to TEC but NC has nailed it.
I love creme caramel, my wife despises them and says insulting things about my favourite dessert. How can she claim to love me when she trashes something I love?
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NewChapter
Cofty, why doesn't your wife love and respect you? Is she an intolerant Acremecaramelist? I bet she's a militant.
BTW, what exactly is a creme caramel? It sounds delish.