VIVIANE- Great point
Why are people burning their city to the ground in Baltimore? How doe Looting and Mob Violence Help?
by PokerPlayerPhil 184 Replies latest social current
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Simon
The other irony is that days ago there was a drone strike against terrorists which happened to also kill an American hostage that they didn't know was there. There was then a whole debate about the legality of an American being killed by a drone strike. Seems funny when you consider how many Americans are killed by the police in America!
I do agree though - every time there is an incident it's never some innocent person. It's always someone fleeing from crime or committing crime. It's easy to dismiss this but it is a drag on the communities if low level criminality isn't tackled then it spreads and destroys the quality of life for those who live there. It's easy to say the police shouldn't do anything - that would be wrong. It's unrealistic to imagine that a system that involves people with guns will ever be 100% safe and without either accident or intentional incident.
The current approach to trying to solve the issues is only going to lead to more entrenched thinking and actions and whatever happens, the community will be the ones to lose out.
There should be a debate about policing policies and rules but where there are riots and open crime it's unrealistic to expect the police to treat everyone with kid gloves. I think this is being done and they are now afraid to act when they should and it's making things worse.
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_Morpheus
I have a unique perspective in this case living so near baltimore. I have worked in baltimore, we go to dinner in baltimore all the time, hang out at the harbor etc etc...
Its foolish to look at riots that people presume involve white people (like the sporting events cited) and claim a double standard locally. the college kids at UMD riot all the time when the basketball team wins.... Amd you see and hear the the EXACT same calls for police presence. The hoodliums are most definatly called rioters, because thats what they are. They are arrested and prosecuted as they damn well should be. I live it every damn time they do it. I litterally clean up and repair the damage as a local utility worker. I will be in baltimore next week helping there....
it is definatly local kids doimg the majority of the damage but it is most certainly outsode agitators fanning the flames and inciting them to riot. Various groups (like the black panthers) were holding rallies a few days ago, the rumours of last night were brewing for a day or two in advance. It was so prevalent local police, emts and utility compaines were put on alert.
One noteworthy differance though, between fools rioting after a sports win and this civil unrest is the type of damage. The riots after sports wins involve damage to cars , they are know to set utility poles on fire and generally cause damage to property.... These riots, while causing damage to property also are causeing physical harm to people. Not acidentally or in an ancillary way. They are assulting people and looting buissness, something unheard of when local sports teams win. Also after ansporting event buissnes are never looted, at least not locally. It jist dosent happen like that....
This is ludicrous, it's embarrassing for me to say i live here and i hate the fact that im going to listen the locally dubbies cry about how this shows the end is near, as if the riots in the 1960's never happened.
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Simon
Sports rioters are equally moronic and condemned. No one that I know supports or applauds such behavior or excuses it because of who is doing it.
The implication is that no one minds if "white people" riot (because the pictures are selected to be of white people) but they are equal opportunity riots - there are black and white people, all equally stupid.
Personally, I think the police response to rioters is far too weak, whatever the cause of the riot is. They should shoot everyone with tranquilizer darts and then throw them in a hole.
The more they happen the more they become accepted. They shouldn't be. No one is forced to riot - they should pay the consequences if they do.
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_Morpheus
I agree with every word you wrote simon. -
GrreatTeacher
I live near Baltimore as well. I watched the news reporting live for 6 hours last evening. A few things:
1. The original violence seemed to be perpetrated by kids. You saw many school uniforms and backpacks. They had been on social media talking about it during the school day. The violence broke out at about 3 pm, just after school let out.
2. The Baltimore police were told to stand down by the mayor. She said this was research-based "best practices" so as not to inflame a crowd already angry with the police.
3. Multiple other jurisdictions were called in during this time.
4. After 4 hours, at 7 pm, the mayor asked the governor to call in the National Guard. He immediately declared a state of emergency and the National Guard was called up.
5. Mayor Stephanie Rawlings-Blake has imposed a 10pm to 5am curfew starting tonight and lasting a week.
6. There were multiple leaders of local churches that put themselves between the police line and the rioters attempting to calm them down. They marched through the streets with the police line behind them. This seemed to calm the crowd somewhat. However, by this time, the violence had spread to other parts of the city.
7. The actions were roundly criticised by black city leaders and most citizens interviewed on the local news channel, WBAL. On another station, there was footage of a mother beating a teenage boy. When asked what was going on, she said this was her son and he was one of the rioters. She was enraged by his behavior.
8. After 8pm, fires broke out in multiple areas of the city.
I turned off the television by 9 pm, but these are the events reported on local TV up till that time.
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Village Idiot
cappytan,
"But also, for all the individuals gunned down by police, beaten up by police, etc. one thing remains constant: 99% of them were in that position because of their actions outside the rules of society."
And where do you get a 99% figure?
I have seen videos of an elderly man being slammed down to the ground by a policeman apparently because he did not speak English. He was paralyzed.
I have seen a video of a 12 year old approached at high speed by a police car and shot for having a toy gun.
I have seen a video of a man in Walmart holding a toy rifle that was on sale with one hand, muzzle pointing up, while holding a cellphone with another hand talking to someone. Also shot.
I have seen a video of a woman, handcuffed behind her back getting repeatedly punched in the shoulder by a cop.
I have seen, with my own eyes, an elderly homeless person, half asleep, getting kicked by a cop.
I am intelligent enough to realize that what shows up on video - and there's dozens more - is but a small fraction of similar incidents that no one gets to record. And since the incident that I was eyewitness to happened 30 years ago I can tell that this is a systemic problem that has always existed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=3YL1ATsi3M8
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cappytan
And where do you get a 99% figure?
That 99% figure is a semi-educated guess. I don't have time to look up statistics. Maybe it's closer to 90%.
What I'm saying is that most of the time, the reason a confrontation occurs is because the person was doing something shady to begin with.
But you can be assured that what gets press coverage is only the most sensational or unique of the incidents.
I'm not saying there's not a systemic problem with abuse of authority amongst police. There is.
So, like I said, Karma goes both ways. What goes around comes around for both the police AND the criminals.
Take as an example, Rodney King. Yes, the police were horrible in their treatment of him. But do you think that incident would have happened in the first place if he had decided to take a cab instead of driving drunk and leading police on a high-speed chase?
People need to take responsibility for their own actions - whether they be police or otherwise.
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_Morpheus
The irony here, villiage, is that freddie gray (the man the violence started over) is the catagory of the 99% percent cappy is citing.
He was a drug dealer, tried and convicted multiple times. He was in an open air drug market when the police started chasing him.
is it a true stat that 99% percent of people killed by police are guilty of something.. No way. Police can be corrupt and and they can and do abuse authority. But the case in ferguson and the one in my back yard most certainly are examples of cappys point. These are no Rosa Parks cases. These are bad people doing bad things and getting harmed in the process of police enforcement. I would NEVER suggest the police were innocent in his death or that he deserved to die, but he started the chain of events.
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adjusted knowledge
This is another example of core values. No one will change their mind on this topic. It is predetermined by your personal life experiences.
i am predicting this thread will go off the rails with lots of hate speech and bigoted thoughts.
An example of no discussion or other view point allowed. A simple repetitive statement to shut down any discourse. If someone states something contrary to your opinion, they are bigoted or spewing hate speech.
Racism is alive and well in America. The only difference is people don't flaunt it like they use to, because they could lose their jobs or businesses. Being a white male I'm privy to the comments made in private by my peers. Being married to a minority and having a mix child I too have experienced the touch of racism. I live in a predominantly black neighborhood. Some are Haitian and others are American born. They do a great job in raising their family, and are the best neighbors I've ever had. The reason is they all have a stable family unit. Each of my neighbors are a married couple with children. I have no worries that they will ever loot or burn my house down. Economic and social problems are the root cause, besides racism.
Since we are stating opinions here. I support the police and have dealt with them on a professional level for 10 years in my previous job. However, there are quite a few that are cocky, and if they feel you are disrespectful they have no problem using force. It's a tough job, especially in a country loaded with guns. But police training and accountability needs to improve.
All I ever read or hear is generalize statements on how to deal with America's race issue. Specifically as a nation we need to address the social issues and economic issues that Black Americans face. Education, job opportunities are important but also the broken homes so many Blacks are born in needs to be addressed. You can't have 73% of a specific population born out of wed-lock and not have issues (Centers for Disease and Control Prevention 2010).
flame away