Please Help! Wife want PROOF of Watchtower Deception

by Indian Larry 70 Replies latest watchtower bible

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  ScenicViewer

  Joining an Organization

  (From Marvin Shilmer's blog, http://marvinshilmer.blogspot.com/2011/09/watchtower-bait-switch.html)

  I. The Society tells us that there is no organization to join. Here are two examples of this from the literature.

  

  II. A letter from the Society's legal dept says just the opposite. Here is an excerpt followed by the letter.

  "From the date of your baptism and your joining the organization of Jehovah's Witnesses, you...agreed to submit to the rules and proceedures of the ecclesiastical government of Jehovah's Witnesses." (bold and underlining added.)

  

  
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  lisaBObeesa

  Luke 23:43 did it for me. No internet is needed, no 'apostate' sources are needed. Just a bunch of Bibles and ideally the orginal greek scriptures... You could go to the library to research this contested NWT verse like I did. Go to the library and pull out every single version of the Bible you can find and read the scripture. Then read that verse in the Jehovah's Witness version of the Bible. The NWT desception is obvious and even shocking (at least it was to me, years ago when I descovered it).

  Notice that in every other scripture with the phrase 'Truly I say to you,' the NWT always puts the comman after 'you' as all the other translations do. ONLY in Luke 23:43 to they move the comma in this common phrase and thus change the entire meaning of the verse-- because if they did not change the verse from the original, that verse would PROVE that JWs are WRONG about some of the their primary teachings. This is deliberate DECEPTION of what the Bible actually says in order to make it SEEM like the Bible supports JW teachings when this scripture clearly DOES NOT.

  It was seeing this deception that finally made it clear to me that I had not just being misled by a mistaken interpretation of the Bible but rather that I had been LIED to by a deliberate mistranslation of the Bible.

  More research into the orignal greek etc, shows this to be a fact.

  or

  Colossians 1:16-20. Look it up in all other translations, in the interlinear, everywhere...then look at in the NWT. the word "other" COMPLETELY changes the meaning of the scripture. The word 'other' does not clarify or make it 'easier to read', it changes the meaning!!

  It is another example of a dilberate DECEPTION done to make it SEEM like the Bible supports JW teachings when in reality, this scripture clearly DOES NOT.

  New International Version(©1984) Jesus answered him, "I tell you the truth, today you will be with me in paradise." New Living Translation(©2007) And Jesus replied, "I assure you, today you will be with me in paradise." English Standard Version(©2001) And he said to him, “Truly, I say to you, today you will be with me in Paradise.” New American Standard Bible(©1995) And He said to him, "Truly I say to you, today you shall be with Me in Paradise." King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To day shalt thou be with me in paradise. International Standard Version(©2008) Jesus said to him, "I tell you with certainty, today you will be with me in Paradise." Aramaic Bible in Plain English (©2010) But Yeshua said to him, “Amen, I say to you that today you shall be with me in Paradise.” GOD'S WORD® Translation(©1995) Jesus said to him, "I can guarantee this truth: Today you will be with me in paradise." King James 2000 Bible (©2003) And Jesus said unto him, Verily I say unto you, Today shall you be with me in paradise. American King James Version And Jesus said to him, Truly I say to you, To day shall you be with me in paradise. American Standard Version And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in Paradise. Douay-Rheims Bible And Jesus said to him: Amen I say to thee, this day thou shalt be with me in paradise. Darby Bible Translation And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, To-day shalt thou be with me in paradise. English Revised Version And he said unto him, Verily I say unto thee, Today shalt thou be with me in Paradise. Webster's Bible Translation And Jesus said to him, Verily I say to thee, This day shalt thou be with me in paradise. Weymouth New Testament "I tell you in solemn truth," replied Jesus, "that this very day you shall be with me in Paradise." World English Bible Jesus said to him, "Assuredly I tell you, today you will be with me in Paradise." Young's Literal Translation and Jesus said to him, 'Verily I say to thee, To-day with me thou shalt be in the paradise.'
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  lisaBObeesa

  another example of deception that extends to almost every individual Jehovah's Witness: they lie to the public about shunning.

  Walk up to any Jehovah's Witness at a table at the mall...any Jehovah's Witnesses you don't know personally. Ask them: "Do you shun former members?" Every single one of them will say "No!"

  Every single Jehovah's Witness you approach will try to deceive you, the 'interested one', with this incomplete, untrue and deceptive answer.

  Because they have been taught to be as DECEPTIVE as their organization is in order to get converts! JWs don't even know they are doing it! The whole thing is BUILT on deception. IT is not just the Org that is deceptive in what they teach from the platform and what they print, it is also each rank and file member who are actively and voluntarily part of the deception.

  Perhaps your own wife will demonstrate this CLEAR CUT Watchtower Deception if you were to have someone else ask her if JWs shun former members... or do they shun people who just don't want to be JWs anymore...

  *******

  You could also find some of the examples of where the JWs change things the WT and Awake orginally said in the bound volumes or on the WT CD in order to hide their 'mistakes.' =desception! The only way you would ever know is if you had the original...
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  EndofMysteries

  QUESTION - on page 2 is the photo of Russells grave, I also had got the on PDF which spoke of it being made by the WT and this was all part of a district convention and on property the society owned. Anyway, my question is what are those buildings in the background? the 3 closest look like 3 mason buildings or something?
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  00DAD

  Have you gone to the jwfacgts site?

  Great stuff there! I suggest a "less is more" approach. Find one or two good examples and let her ponder that. Then maybe later add another.

  Lather, rinse, repeat.

  Good luck!

  00DAD

  BTW, here's another good site:

  http://www.quotes-watchtower.co.uk/1914.htm
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  Indian Larry

  I have been offline for a while. Thanks so much for the responses everyone.

  Phizzy> I tried 607. It is like talking to a wall. “God has to have an organization, if it is not the WT then who is it?”

  Smiddy> I tried all the old Russell and Rutherford stuff. She just puts it all off to “new light”

  Leolala> The only thing so far that seems to have got through to her at all is the Conti trial and the UN/NGO mess. However she puts each off to individuals. Cognative dissonance.

  DarioKehl> I will check out the YouTube channel you mentioned. - Thanks

  Fistandantillus> I tried the canabalism idea. She can see it was wrong. She says those responsible will have to answer, but she can not see a link to today.

  Designs> Socially outside of the org? Nothing. Her entire family is in the “truth” and they are a very close family. Mine is as well (I am 3rd gen). I have not gone to meetings for several years and everyone still treats me well.

  FW Franz> I have tried the “false prophet” tact. She just puts it off as “old light”, if I get to close to actually getting through to her she starts crying and goes into another room. She just can’t/won’t face it.

  Searcher> I made a note of Rev 20:12. I will research that later this evening

  Dozy> Tried telling her about the change re generation and the prophecy in the masthead. No go. New light.

  Rather be in Hades> I actually got her to listen to a little of the Walsh trial on the audio version of C of C.

  Brinjen> 1975 was not so bad to her. That is the year her Mom was baptized.

  Clarity> Rutherford his cars, his houses, the whiskey, all old news to her.

  Blondie> I have used some of that info and it did help some. Not enough though.

  End of Mysteries > I had read that post earlier. It has some good points but it may be too “deep” for her

  Jaime de Aragon > Russell stuff does not phase her at all. Old history/new light

  MC Rubber Mallet> Good points - Thanks

  DesirousOfChange > This is the kind of stuff I am looking for. Clear examples of misquotes or taking something out of context that can not be a mistake but that shows that they do INTENTIONALLY mislead the members. I did make a little ground with her on some of the quotes about earthquakes. She just can not believe that the GB would ever try to intentionally mislead the flock.

  Scenic Viewer> Thanks for those examples! I had never scene that particular one before. I will try that!

  00Dad> Yes. JWFacts if a great site. I have found it tremendously helpful. I like the way he presents things. No vitriol, just facts.

  I should have said earlier however that she found a book I had that was entitled “Questions to ask JW’s” I had put the dust jacket from another non related book on that one to keep it off of her radar. Unfortunately she found it and now anything I say she thinks is coming from that book, I have to have something that I can point to in either the mainstream news or the publications from the pas 20 years. Any other sites, stuff from the past, all that just bounces off of her like she is Superman. I am looking for kryptonite.
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  00DAD

  Kryptonite: The WTBTS's worst enemy is their own words.
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  ScenicViewer

  The Organization Has Never Disappointed Us

  The Society claims that it has 'never disappointed us .' Here is one Watchtower quote,

  (W 7-15-2011 p12 par8 (Simplified English Version))
  "The organization has never disappointed us and always gives us an abundance of pure waters of truth from God's Word."

  Yet, from it's beginning the Society has attached meaning to dates that turned out to be false, such as 1872, 1874, 1878, 1914, 1925, 1941, 1951, 1975, 2000. Many Watchtower followers were so disappointed by the failures that they left the organization.

  One particular disappointment was the failure of the promise that the '1914 Generation would not pass away.' Below are two examples of that promise.

  I.

  

  Sadly, every one of the people pictured here is gone now, and this teaching of the '1914 Generation' was abandoned in 1995 and has been replaced a few times since with 'new understandings' of what the Generation is.

  II. In the other example, the Society claimed that it's understanding of the 'the peaceful new world' that would come before the '1914 Generation' passed away was 'the Creator's promise.' This appeared in the masthead of the Awake! magazine for many years.

  After the failure of Watchtower's promise was more than obvious the Awake! masthead was quietly altered to leave out any mention of the 1914 Generation.

  

  

  The failure of the '1914 Generation' to see fulfullment is just one of many of Watchtower's failed predictions. Regarding the statement from the 7-15-2011 Watchtower above, can we really say the "the organization has never disappointed us," and that it " always gives us an abundance of pure waters of truth from God's Word"? These claims are clearly misleading.

  A Scriptural thought from Prov 13:12 (NWT)

  Expectation postponed is making the heart sick, but the thing desired is a tree of life when it does come.

  To date all of Watchtower's significant predictions have failed.

  Many sincere and thoughtful people find this disappointing.
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  LostGeneration

  Without knowing how scholarly your wife is, here is the most shocking thing I found when I started to do research. Without regurgitating the whole thing, its found here:

  The Watchtower of November 15, 1979, page 26, made this comment:

  “What, then, is Christ’s role in this program of salvation? Paul proceeds to say: “There is one God, and one mediator between God and men [not, all men], a man Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all.”—1 Tim. 2:5, 6.

  The insertion "[not, all men]" is the Society blatantly changing the meaning of the Bible.

  Ultimate reality posted a lot more on the "mediator" here, starting with the information above. But the idea is that in that WT article they take a scripture, add their own words in the brackets, and thus completely DECEIVE their members into an interpretation that fits their own needs.
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  Tater-T

  great thread... book marking!!!