Jwfacts-- More Lies But This Time About The Great Crowd

by Recovery 278 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

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  Recovery

  In verse 13 John does not see the elders. He merely says 'one of the elders said to me'. This is the same thing when he said: 'And I heard the number of those who were sealed, a hundred and forty-four thousand.."

  You are not understanding my line of reasoning, so I will explain it to you in the simplest terms I know how.

  Revelation 7 is talking about the earth. It cannot be talking about heaven because the vision never switches gears into heaven. The setting never changes. The central theme of the earth never changes. It is often used as proof that this vision is about heaven because it mentions the 144,000 but John merely says 'he heard' the sealing, not that he saw the sealing. That is my point.
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  rather be in hades

  as a former pioneer, i was pretty up on the prophecies.

  as an engineering student, i've done my own reserach...aka learned physics and science.

  conclusion? well...i LEFT the jws.

  the watchtower is factually inaccurate. that's a fact. not debateable. how on earth you can say that when they've ADMITTED TO FALSE PROPHECY, i have no idea.

  once again, explain to me hayden covington's words while under oath.
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  tootired2care

  I don't see any distinction in that passage that says the great crowd is some place other than " standing before the throne and before the Lamb" where is the Lamb located Recovery?
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  Recovery

  Jwfacts clearly did not understand the argument: To use your terminology and reasoning, notice that John does not say 'I saw' or 'I was transferred into heaven'. By your reasoning, the elders must be on earth too, which is not what your religion teaches.

  No my reasoning was regarding the specificity of the context and setting of the vision. We cannot change settings unless we have ample reason to. Such as John saying 'And I saw in heaven...and look!'. That would be entirely different. I am not saying that just because John does not say he was transferred into heaven every single time that means its taking place on the earth. I am not saying that just because John does not say 'he saw' that means that something is not taking place in heaven.

  John emphasizes the earth. Doesn't make a transition into heaven whatsoever. Ray Franz (and thus jwfacts - his professional copy and paster) says otherwise.

  Who will you believe?
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  tec

  Why do you think the setting of John's vision could not have changed?

  peace,

  tammy
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  tootired2care

  Where is the throne located Recovery?
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  tootired2care

  Where is the Lamb located Recovery?
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  tootired2care

  Who will you believe?

  Certianly not you, "If you can't dazzle them with brilliance, baffle them with bullshit [copy and paste from the wt$ in your case.]" - W.C. Fields.
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  Recovery

  The Lamb is on the earth (after the things mentioned in Revelation 7 and its parallel vision in 21) take place. I'm sure you will ask for proof. In short, Revelation 21 is a vision of the new heaven and earth. Chapter 22 is a continuation of that vision.

  Notice what verse 1 says "And he showed me a river of water of life, clear as crystal, flowing out from the throne of God and of the Lamb 2 down the middle of its broad way. And on this side of the river and on that side [there were] trees of life producing twelve crops of fruit, yielding their fruits each month. And the leaves of the trees [were] for the curing of the nations."

  The anointed are immortal and cured the moment they are sealed and go into heaven. Now ask yourself and use your thinking cap: Does this verse sound like it's talking about the earth and people who already immortal? hmm. If the water is flowing out from the throne of God and the Lamb, and it can't possibly be talking about heaven, where is the throne located? And thus, where is the Lamb? I hope I answered your question.
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  tootired2care

  And round and round with go...uhhh now you're pulling out the heavy interpretation, I think everyones eyes just glazed over...