The New World Translation is not a translation,

by Jaime l de Aragon 46 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

  • mP
    mP

    Bob:

    I think that goes with the territory. Translating an ancient language, that was written for an ancient audience with very foreign customs, and the manuscripts themselves sometimes have difficulties.

    mP:

    Not quite, they insert words and names into places that were not in the original text. Jesus Christ is inserted many many times in places that do not exist in the original text. Just like the WTS tries to pretend that Michael is Jesus translators try and make scripture match with what religion has taught often dishonestly.

    YOu can examien the codex sinaticus for yousrelf for more exmaples.

  • mP
    mP

    Bob:

    . Yet, the Society insists on identifying the writer of the book of Hebrews. Whether it was Paul or someone else, if it was inspired, then it was meant to be anonymous. So it is presumptuous and a double standard for the Society to always insist that Paul was the writer.

    mP:

    You have mis understood the motivation. The problem is abot half of the so called Pauline texts are not his at all. Scholars have examined the langauge for starters and also notice that some books have very different opinions. THe classic examples being in some Paul is pro circumcision and in other he tells a different story. There are also texts where he says women should be silent and then others where it says women can preach. The WTS needs to use Pauls name for Hebrews to make it appear genuine when it is honestly anonmymous. The gospels themselves are anonymous, only Roman Catholic Church tradition gives them names. The names make them appear genine and most xians say well matthew was an apostle and an eyewitness when the truth is qutie different.

    The WTS hides the NWT translators because they dont want credentials examined, which is very different from the reason of giving Hebrews to Paul.

  • Bobcat
    Bobcat

    mP:

    I don't want to argue the point with you, but do you have an example or two that I could consider? (My main reason for posting was the point about the anonymity of the NWT authors vis-a-vis their disrespect for the wishes of the author of Hebrews to remain anonymous.)

    Here is the codex sinaiticus. For example, at Matthew 1:1 the names "Jesus," "David," and "Abraham" are all in the text. In fact Abraham occurs twice in a row as the last word of verse 1 and the first word of verse 2 (Incidentally, the web site appears unfinished.)

    Take Care

  • Bungi Bill
    Bungi Bill

    With reference to the Walsh trial of 1954, F.W. Franz actually said that he wouldn't translate into Hebrew the first verse of the Bible - he did NOT say that he couldn't.

    Under the circumstances, I would have probably done the same:

    - what was on issue during this trial was not Franz's abilities as a bible translator, but whether the Jehovahs Witnesses should be registered as an officially recognised religion (and by extension, its members thus recognised "ministers", who could then be exempted compulsory military service. It was the matter of compulsory military service that brought about this trial).

    Some smart *$s of a lawyer, acting for the crown, (and with little or no knowledge himself of the Hebrew language) was trying to put Frederick Franz on the spot. However, as the question was irrelevant to the case, Franz to not have to answer it - and in effect handed back the good old two-fingered salute to the crown solicitor by not doing so!

    Whoever this Dr. Martin is, he has not reported this incident accurately when he substitutes the word "wouldn't" with "couldn't."

    Bill.

  • MrFreeze
    MrFreeze

    I had CO's tell me (one also pointed it out in the pioneer meeting) that the New World Translation is a translation. King James Version is a version. Thus, the NWT is superior. I just thought, wahhhhhhhhhhh?

  • Jaime l de Aragon
    Jaime l de Aragon

    The Authorized Version, commonly known as the King James Version, King James Bible, AV, KJB, or KJV,is an English translation of theChristian Bible by the Church of England begun in 1604 and completed in 1611

    Nothing to do with the JW shit done in two days and anonymity, with "translators" who did not know Greek and Hebrew

    Authorized King James Version

  • EndofMysteries
    EndofMysteries

    I can't read greek, so if Jesus, christ, christians are not there, then what names are in place?

  • mP
    mP

    EndOfMysteries

    For starters, christians is not to be found. The CS website states for each that the word CHRESTIAN has been corrected to CHRISTIAN. You can easily verify this a side by side translation is provided in both Greek, English and a photo of the original manuscript.

    Regarding Jesus the name is simply absnet from many places in the original text where the translators insert. This makes the original text potentially very different and unclear at best. One doesnt need to know Greek to highlight words in the Gr and see that the letters are different and cant possibly spell Jesus or Christ in their Gr form. It does however show that the bible has been shall we say revised and updated many many times. John 1 the trinity scripture is not hte only revised scripture, this appears everywhere. Lets not forget that much xian theology is based on literally a few words. Just look at the trinity, whether you agree or disagree the argument amounts to a dozen or so words.

    We see the same thing in the NWT where the translators have generously changed some names to God or Jesus basedon their theology and not what it says. Take Michal ehte archangel, no where does the bible say this is another name for jesus but belief dictates that some rationalisation must be made so they pretend its Jesus. Check the text from CS and you will see the translations are not honest or pure they really do edit them with their theology in mind.

  • Phizzy
    Phizzy

    And remember too that the Codex Sinaiticus is a late text in itself , the best complete one we have I guess, but very late, so it is a copy of copies, many copies.

    And as producing something like this was expensive and done for the benefit of whoever paid the Scribe, who knows how many redactions went on to suit the needs of the person paying ?

    The NWT is an interesting phenomenon, I agree with the thread title that you cannot really grace it with the word "Translation", but the process that Freddie Franz and his assistants went through to produce it has strangely produced a work that is of value to those interested in trying to get back to what perhaps was originally written, a hopeless aim, as only a vague approximation will ever be achieved.

    I don't think though that I would ever wish to quote its renderings as authoritative, just interesting and giving possibilities.

  • NoStonecutters
    NoStonecutters

    New World Translation a creation of the Illuminati

    The 19th Century English Occult Revival and the New Age Occult

    The Nineteenth Century English Occult Revival, A Major Forerunner of the New Age Occult Movement

    The principal founder of the Theosophical Society, Helena Blavatsky (1831-1891), was part of the 19th century English occult revival. So were the two Anglican theologians, Brook Foss Westcott (1825-1903) and Fenton Anthony Hort (1828-1892), who created the Westcott-Hort Greek New Testament text of 1881. This Greek text is the basis for almost all modern New Testament versions, including the "never inspired version," the NIV.

    Helena Blavatsky laid the foundations for the New Age Occult movement. Then Alice A. Bailey ( 1880-1949) created many of the specific teachings of the occult movement which arrived on the scene with the counterculture of the sixties and seventies. Alice Bailey came from England to the United States. Alice's husband, Foster Bailey, was a high level Mason, and also wrote about the occult. Alice and Foster tie high level Freemasonry to the occult and the mystery religions. Alice Bailey was a member of Blavatsky's Theosophical Society.

    There is some evidence that the British ruling elite and members of the ruling class promoted the New Age Occult movement in the United States during the 20th century. They also promoted the use of LSD, and the drug movement after 1962, and the rock music that was a vital part of the counterculture. For example, Marilynn Ferguson is said to have been a protogee of Willis Harmon of the Stanford Research Institute of Stanford University. Marilynn Ferguson is a New Age Occult leader who wrote the book The Aquarian Conspiracy (1980). Willis Harmon was influenced by the Tavistock Institute of England, which was part of the British elite, to introduce a counterculture in the U.S. that would weaken Christianity and the American family. Aldous Huxley - of the British Elite ruling class - was important in creating the LSD or drug movement in both California and in the Boston area through his protogees Gregory Bateson, Timothy Leary and Richard Alpert.

    The Tavistock Institute had come under the influence of Sigmund Freud and several other change agents like Kurt Lewin, all psychologists, who operated from within Tavistock Institute to bring us the sex liberation movement, group dynamics, group therapy, and the encounter group movement. What dean Gotcher calls "Diaprax," the use of the Hegelian dialectic to change attitudes and behavior was part what Tavistock gave us. In addition, the Frankfurt, Germany Institute for Social Research, known as the Frankfurt School, followed both Freud and Marx. They taught stealth Marxism, or cultural Marxism, to be brought about by non-violent means. Theodore W. Adorno in his 1950 book, The Authoritarian Personality, which claimed to be on personality and social psychology, said that Christianity and the strong family create the authoritarian personality. The authoritarian personality causes fascism or Nazisism. Herbert Marcuse, another member of the Frankfurt School, promoted the New Left and the sex liberation movement as part of the counterculture. Adorno, Marcuse and others of the Frankfurt School sought to weaken Christianity and the family. They saw Christianity and the family as being the sources of the cohesiveness of the older American Belonger Culture. By helping to create the counterculture they were working to severely weaken Christianity and the family, and, in turn, the cohesiveness of American culture. At the same time they were working to maintain Jewish cohesiveness and the Jewish family and culture. The members of the Frankfurt School operated from within major American universities.

    To some extent all of this promotion of the counterculture grew out of the 19th century British elite. There were a number of clubs, societies and secret societies within which the late 19th century British elites worked.

    The Cambridge Ghost Society and the Society For Psychical Research which the two Anglican theologians Brook Foss Westcott and Fenton Anthony Hort helped create were two of these societies. These societies studied and promoted occult phenomena. The elite English Fabian Society, the English socialists, were another group. The Coefficients Club was created by Beatrice and Sidney Webb who were in the Fabian Socialist movement. The Coficients Club included Bertrand Russell, H.G. Wells and the politician Arthur Balfour.

    Cecil Rhodes, an important leader of what is now called the New World Order, organized a secret society in 1891 which apparently included Lord Rothschild of England, a member of the ruling elite. Arthur Balfour and Lord Rothschild were also members of the Apostles Club which included Westcott, Hort, Henry Sidgwick and others of the Society for Psychical Research. Thus, some of the members of the British ruling class - Westcott and Hort and others - were joined in this club by a member of the ruling elite, the small group at the top.

    On http://blessedquietness.com/journal/prophecy/cnp-3.htm they say "...the plan for the State of Israel was formulated in the secret societies of Great Britain." Lord Rothschild was one point of entry for Zionism into the British elites. The English Balfour Declaration - of Arthur Balfour - of November 1917, and the sending of British troops to Palestine gave the Zionist movement an early victory. The same British elites helped to create dispensationalism within American Christianity, to make that theology which supports Jewish Supremacy and physical, unsaved Jews, into a Christian Zionist movement to further the cause of Zionism.

    So the promotion of the occult within the late 19th century British elites was just a part of a broader effort in the 20th century by the same elites, or their sons, to create an American counterculture to weaken Christianity and the family.

    On www.britannica.com they say "Another movement influenced in part by Hinduism is the Theosophical Society. Founded in New York City in 1875 by Helena Blavatsky of Russia, it was originally inspired by Kabbala (Jewish esoteric mysticism), gnosticism (esoteric salvatory knowledge), and other forms of Western occultism."

    In the late 19th century Helena Blavatsky announced the coming of the New Age.

    Probably most loyal followers of the New Bible versions and Westcott and Hort - the riders on the wrecking machine - will deny that the two Anglican theologians played any role in the 19th century English Occult Revival. So we should be careful to identify the sources for the claim that Westcott and Hort were important figures in the 19th century English occult movement.

    Alan Gauld in The Founders of Psychical Research, 1968, Schocken Books, says "Cambridge professor Fenton John Antony Hort, Anglican clergyman Brooke Foss Westcott, and the future Archbishop of Canterbury, Edward White Benson, founded the Ghost Society in 1851."
    According to W.H. Salter in The Society For Psychical Research, An Outline of Its History, Society for Psychical Research, 1948, p. 8 says "The original objective of the Society for Psychical Research (S.P.R.) was to conduct research into that large group of debatable phenomena designated by such terms as mesmeric, psychical and spiritualisic. Committees were organized to examine telepathy, hypnotism, mesmeric trance, clairvoyance, ESP, apparations, haunted houses, and to determine the laws of psychical spiritualistic phenomena. In recognition of the important work accomplished by Benson, Westcott and Hort - the leaders of its precursor, the Cambridge Ghost Socity...."

    Arthur Westcott, the son of Brooke F. Westcott, in his book, Life and Letters of Brooke Foss Westcott, Macmillan and Company, 1896, Vol 1, p 118, says of his father than "His devotion with ardour is indicated in a "Ghostly Circular" authorized by him, "The interest and importance of a serious and earnest inquiry into the nature of the phenomena which are vaguely called supernatural will scarcely be questioned (so says Brooke F. Westcott)."

    Arthur Westcott wrote in the same book on page 118 that Brooke F. Westcott said in the "Ghostly Circular" that "But there are many others who believe it possible that the beings of the unseen world may manifest themselves in extraordinary ways."

    The son of Fenton Hort, Arthur Hort, in Life and Letters of Fenton John Anthony Hort, Macmillan, 1896, Vol 1, pp. 170-172 wrote that
    his father was active in "Two other societies...in both of which Hort seems to have been the moving spirit...the other called... the Ghostly Guild. The object was to collect and classify authenticated instances of what are now called psychical phenomena."

    There is a reference saying the Society for Psychical Research held seances and interviewed Blavatsky. "In its early stages, the S.P.R. (Society For Psychical Research) held séances in the townhouse of Arthur Balfour of which his sister Eleanor was the principle organizer. Various mediums of reputation were investigated with the purpose of ruling out charlatans and determining if entities from the spirit realm or deceased persons did in fact communicate with the living. In 1884, Madame H.P. Blavatsky, founder of the Theosophical Society, was interviewed by a committee of the S.P.R....the S.P.R. was at first -- "…considerably impressed by the evidence of Mme Blavatsky and her friends..." From: W.H. Salter, The Society For Psychical Research, An Outline of it's History, London, 1948, pp 21-22.

    In addition, the Society For Psychical Research sponsored a number of seance settings from 1889 to 1890 by spirit medium Leonora Piper of Boston. Rosalee Thompson, a British spirit medium in 1897 and 1898. There are a few links on Google to these seances held by the Society For Psychical Research. Type in the names of the two spirit mediums above and "Society For psychical Research."

    In studying the occult, the Anglican theologians and other members of the English elite class made the occult more acceptable.

    This same process seems to have happened in the seventies and eighties when American psychologists and communications professors studied hard core pornography. They made pornography more acceptable, not only to the college students they showed it to, but also to others.

    Psychologist Leonard Berkowitz of the University of Wisconsin and Ed Donnerstein showed a porno movie of two men tying up and raping a woman. This is reported in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 1981.

    Dolf Zillman and Jennings Bryant, in the Department of Broadcast and Film Communications at the University of Alabama, also showed hard core porno to college students as research. The professors found that students habituate to some extent to seeing explicit heterosexuality, and find deviant sexuality and sado massochism more acceptable than before viewing non-deviant heterosexual sex.

    Acceptance of porno came in on the heels of the counterculture, and was part of the process of breaking down Christian morality and weakening the family. The Dot Com Culture on the Internet has helped to spread acceptance of pornography.

    Source: http://cantontruth2.blogspot.ca/2008/10/new-age-cult-freemasonry-and-westcott.html

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