Is Pacifism Ethical?

by cofty 76 Replies latest watchtower beliefs

• 

  cofty

  Here are some points from the link in my OP.

  Types of Pacifism

  Absolute pacifism

  An absolute pacifist believes that it is never right to take part in war, even in self-defence. They think that the value of human life is so high that nothing can justify killing a person deliberately.

  Conditional pacifism

  Conditional pacifists are against war and violence in principle, but they accept that there may be circumstances when war will be less bad than the alternative.

  Selective pacifism

  Other pacifists believe that it is a matter of degree, and only oppose wars involving weapons of mass destruction

  Active pacifism

  Pacifists are heavily involved in political activity to promote peace, and to argue against particular wars.

  JWs are Absolute pacifists in so far as they view the deliberate taking of a life to be culpable even in self-defence.

  It is this position that I think is unethical. Pacifism is a "counsel of perfection".
• 

  tec

  the ethical response of the rest of the world was to be found in the teachings of Siddhartha Gautama Buddha was it? Meanwhile back in the real world.....

  So you did not read what I had originally stated?

  Because it is subjective, Cofty. Pacifism can be ethical... fighting to defend can also be ethical. It is not black and white/one or the other... in every given situation. And I gave other options as well. Such as not butting in other nation's affairs except to offer aid, or asylum, even by helping others escape. As long as there is another option other than violence, that option should be employed. There are options other than that, i know, because there are active pacifists out there exercising them. The problem is, I think, that violence is chosen as one of the first options, rather than as the last.

  Well, violence begets violence.

  So a pacifist might be just making his stand in an attempt to break that cycle. Even an absolute pacifist, in which case, it is ethical for what he/she is trying to do or say.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  tec

  Also, jws aren't really absolute pacifists, because of their views and longing for and expectation of a day when 99% of the world will be killed, right?

  So don't think I am defending them. I am not.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  cofty

  As long as there is another option other than violence, that option should be employed.

  That's a given.

  What about when there is no other option such as in the 4 examples I mentioned? How can pacifism be ethical when millions of lives are at stake.

  jws aren't really absolute pacifists, because of their views and longing for and expectation of a day when 99% of the world will be killed, right?

  They are absolute pacifists. Their fantasies about the future are not relevent to this topic. On this particual point you are 100% in agreement with the Watchtower.
• 

  slimboyfat

  Can you give some actual examples of ethical interventions within the last fifty years?

  JWs do not consider themselves pacifists by the way. They argue that God required his people to take up arms in the past but that the coming war of Armageddon is one in which they will not be required to fight. As regards wars "in the current system of things" they prefer to describe themselves as conscientious objectors.
• 

  cofty

  Lybia.
• 

  cofty

  As regards wars "in the current system of things" they prefer to describe themselves as conscientious objectors.

  A distinction without a difference.
• 

  tec

  What about when there is no other option such as in the 4 examples I mentioned? How can pacifism be ethical when millions of lives are at stake

  There are other options. I mentioned some. But politics get involved, and hell, there are rarely any good guys. Mostly cause and effect. And pacifism can be ethical when those people are looking at the millions upon millions of lives that are going to be lost... in a war, or future wars.

  But lets say there are no other options... then I would never say that acting is unethical. Not if it is motivated by the desire to help, out of compassion for those who are in need. Not everyone fighting that same war is ethical though. (on either side) Some just want to fight and could not care less about who is right or wrong. (on either side) Some want to defend (even proactively) and do care (on either side).

  Stop thinking all or nothing; black/white.

  On this particual point you are 100% in agreement with the Watchtower.

  I am not an absolute pacifist.

  Peace,

  tammy
• 

  slimboyfat

  What about Libya?
• 

  slimboyfat

  The difference is JWs argue they would take up arms if God required them to. Absolute pacifists will take up arms in no circumstances.