Tammy - I have no hesitation in saying there is no god. I don't feel the need to add small print every time about " subject to further evidence to the contrary "
Why aren't you an Atheist?
by Bloody Hotdogs! 697 Replies latest jw friends
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tec
I'm not sure what you mean. Your allergy to the commonly used name Jeus makes it doubly confusing.
Cute.
'Jesus' then. The man. Prove that he never existed, and THAT would probably throw me for a loop.
Technically the word "proof" only belongs in the maths class so I use it conditionally, but we can already prove that every living thing including humans evolved from a common ancestor.
That says nothing about the existence of God, one way or the other. Simply explains some of the 'how' of physical things.
Peace,
tammy
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Christ Alone
It's already been said and I think it deserves to be said again. We cannot prove (in a scientific means, that is) that God exists. Science cannot prove that he doesn't exist. That's the way it is and that's the way it shall always be until we either die...and nothing happens, or we die and something does happen.
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NewChapter
I wasn't saying that about you, NC. I was saying it about KS.
Yes, I know.
As to the question about whether belief is evolutionary in origin---good point. It does seem religiosity may be a by-product of other traits that added to our success, but possibly a bad side effect that can be channeled in another way. The old example of if you are more disposed to run away rather than investigate a rustle in the bushes, then you won't be eaten by a predator. But you also won't know what it is in the bushes and you will make assumptions you cannot prove. So that tendency, to believe without proof, may make one more fit, but can also become maladaptive when applied in different contexts.
For a long time, religiosity probably did hold things together when we had no way to find the answers. Belief without evidence brought comfort and cohesion. It also led to a lot of injustice, bloodshed, and ignorance. Religiosity held back scientific inquiry and even persecuted it. Who knows what would have happened if scientists had the freedoms they have today---perhaps we would have found many more cures, renewable energy, food sources. When a young brain is suppressed by superstition before it has even had a chance to find it's talents, then we all lose. Could we have lost some Einsteins because they were born into fundamentalist families? We'll never know.
We have many ways to find answers today, and many new methods on the horizon, but if we live in a society that does not respect science and human knowledge, things like funding, education, politics hold back progress. It's not been enough for believers to believe, many of them have snatched up political power and tried to suppress the rest of us. If we could just shed this, not necessarily everyone's belief, but this wall and resistance to finding answers, I think the world would improve.
If we keep talking and win one parent before they commit their children to ignorance, then we have one more brain that may add something precious to progress. I realize that there are all kinds of believers. I will fight for your right to believe and have your churches. But that doesn't mean I think it is best.
Delusional: This is not a term used in a psychological context. It's more about convincing yourself of something that is not true---but not having to do with mental illness. If I think there is no god, and I see a person has convinced themselves there is, this would appear as a delusion to me. Is the Taliban delusional? Many think so. Other believers think so. Even other Muslims think so. Are JW's delusioned? We all think so. We only object when the term is used on us personally.
Yet words count, so it's probably not the most constructive word to throw into a conversation.
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cofty
CA - Nobody has ever said we can prove god does not exist. Proof belongs ony in maths class.
The evidence there is no god is so strong that believers always run away from the hard questions, they obfuscate, hide from inconvenient facts and take refuge in mental gymnastics and semantics.
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NewChapter
We cannot prove (in a scientific means, that is) that God exists. Science cannot prove that he doesn't exist.
Very true. Which is why an Atheist will say there is not proof of existence, therefore they will go with the proof. The reasoning is that if there is a god, and that god wants to be known, then surely itshehe would give us some evidence. On the other hand, when people try to use science to prove their gods, it's just irritating and wrong. God cannot be measured by scientific means. Science actually has nothing to say about gods, because it cannot measure it in any way. But individuals make conclusion based on the utter lack of evidence. All we can really say is that science has found nothing. But when someone comes along with a pseudoscience and starts talking energy and spirit and all this vague stuff, it rankles.
Believe---but don't pretend that science has proven something it has not even investigated.
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tec
The evidence there is no god is so strong that believers always run away from the hard questions, they obfuscate, hide from inconvenient facts and take refuge in mental gymnastics and semantics.
If a believer does not 'run away', then they are told that their answers are an exercise in mental gymnastics/semantics/etc, etc.
So what is this evidence? Because i thought it was just that there was a lack of evidence for God; rather than evidence against Him.
Peace,
tammy
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Christ Alone
Nobody has ever said we can prove god does not exist.
Nobody? Ever?
Lots of people say it. Of course, they aren't scientists. And they haven't researched their claim to atheism enough. But I have heard it from several, some of which have posted on this site. Someone (it may or may not have been on this very thread) said something along the lines of "Before I found out about the proof that God doesn't exist..."
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Christ Alone
The evidence there is no god is so strong that believers always run away from the hard questions
And here is that exact statement, cofty. Evidence that there is no God. There is no evidence that there is no God. There is only this: There is no evidence that God DOES exist. But the statement can't be made that there is evidence that God does not exist. This isn't mere semantics.
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kassad84
That's why things look so perfect. Adjustments were made, but by evolution.
Hey NewChapter, you posted this 8hrs ago. i just want to answer cause i'm finding this thread/debate so much fun. i just want to point out that i don't want to quarrel, just someone who wants to voice his opinion.
yes it may very well be that its all because of evolution, but then I will question how or where that life that's become so well versed in evolving came to being in the first place. how a combination of carbon and other elements suddenly sprang into activity into living beings. i believe science may come up with an answer eventually on that, but it may take its time. at the moment, scientists are still having trouble figuring out how electrons behave in the quantum level.
there is an argument called Pascal's wager about this. That since God cannot be proven nor disproven that there is more to gain for a man to live as though God exists than not.
And it all comes down to morality, isn't it? The right and the wrong.
God/the Bible/the people who wrote the Bible spelled out moral principles that man has always known in his heart but in the past, there's no formality or obligation to do it. The question is maybe whether or not God exists, but whether or not we will be still be moral people, looking not to harm our neighbor, even without an all power entity looking on our shoulders. If someone is an atheist BUT a moral man nevertheless, then he is soooo much better than a religious one that is a hypocrite.I remember Ricky Gervais twit the other day that goes,
"Dear religion,
This week I safely dropped a man from space while you shot a child in the head for wanting to go to school.
Yours,
Science."
With events like this and so many countless ones that have occurred in history, I can totally understand why there are so many atheists. But I think these acts of the Taliban may for them be a religious act, but NOT a moral one. Once again legalism makes religious people crazy.