Why aren't you an Atheist? (page 28)

agonus

Primarily because I see the presence of Divinity in my girlfriend and my three beautiful daughters.

cofty

Outlaw - you are still falling back on pedantic definitions instead of trying to actually understand the other side.

No atheist can prove god does not exist. I have never come across an atheist who thinks otherwise. You are arguing against a strawman.

Strictly speaking the word "proof" only belongs in the maths class, in every other sphere of life we have to make the effort to weigh up the evidence.

In UK law courts juries are asked to reach a verdict of guilty if the case for the prosecution is "proven beyond reasonable doubt".

Once they have thoroughly considered all the DNA evidence, the forensics, the witness testimony, the CCTV, the telephone records and computer data etc etc they have to make a decision. If they consider the evidence to be incontravertible they will pass a guilty verdict.

It is not their "best guess". Its not a matter of faith or personal preference or belief. At the same time they understand that if new evidence should come to light in the future then the verdict may change.

In the case against god I am thoroughly convinced of my conclusion and satisfied that I have more information to consider than I could possibly relate. I have listened thoughtfully to every possible defence and found it all to be vacuous wishful thinking. I even lived as an evangelical christian for 9 years and experienced all the existential exploits they ultimately depend on.

If new evidence ever comes to light I will be delighted to consider it seriously. I dont have "faith" that my conclusion is correct, it is simply an intellectual decison based on the facts.

OUTLAW

LOL!!@ New Chapter!!..

Yes I get it..

I think either side would be wise to leave a.

LOL! It's NOT a door---not a door---it's an iddy biddy, eensy, weensy, polka dotted crack! MICROSCOPIC!

teeny, tiny....NC

LOL!!..

It`s good to have conversations like this..

I have a better understanding after chatting with the Atheists here..

About their points of veiw..

I was painting with a very large brush..That brush isn`t so big anymore..

............................. ...OUTLAW

agonus

I empathize with those present who find themselves frustrated with those in both camps. I'm perfectly comfortable with the Einsteinian/Spinozan God concept, but there are many fundies on both sides of the issue who consider such notions unpalatable. Many feel that if God is not an omnipotent, imminent being who responds directly to prayers, human tragedies, etc. and performs tangible miracles, he must not exist in any way, shape, or form. Bollocks, if you'll pardon my boldness. To quote the immortal Futurama, "When you do things right, people won't be sure you've done anything at all". Humanity is rapidly losing its sense of subtlety, and to me, God is subtlety personified.

OUTLAW

Hey Cofty!..

Thanks for taking the time to explain yourself..

I have a better understanding of what your trying to get across..

Much Appreciated..

.......................... ... OUTLAW

cofty

Thanks Outlaw its been a pleasure.

Agonus how would we tell the difference between a "subtle" god and a non-existant god?

sabastious

I am not an atheist because it simply isn't a convincing argument to me. Many atheists have presented their views on this forum and I just don't see the absoluteness they say they have other than the fact that they say it, a LOT. To me God is a better answer on all fronts. God just makes perfect sense to me therefore atheism is simply not appealing in the truth department because I see evidence for God all around me. They generally want to say that personal purpose and free will are illusions which is an indefensible position, imo.

-Sab

Phizzy

I am getting tired now, I have just suffered a nasty week of MAN Flu oh boy you girls can't imagine ! but I threw down this challenge earlier, maybe on this thread, to life long believers :

Why not try the life of unbelief ? My relatives who have been in the JW's all their lives claim they are happy in it, but they do not know, have not experienced what I have, that being out of it, I am much happier than when I was in.

So, you lifelong believers, how do you know it may not be much more satisifying and make you a happier person to join us unbelievers ?

What have you got to lose, but the chains that bind you ?

cedars

cofty

I even lived as an evangelical christian for 9 years and experienced all the existential exploits they ultimately depend on.

Out of curiosity, did you consider yourself a "born again" Christian? Did you once believe yourself to have experienced anything remarkable in being anointed by spirit? I see ex-JWs a lot on YouTube who preach about all that stuff, and I often wonder how their minds work - whether they're fooling themselves into believing they've had some sort of experience, or are just misinterpreting their own emotional responses.

Cedars

sabastious

If new evidence ever comes to light I will be delighted to consider it seriously. I dont have "faith" that my conclusion is correct, it is simply an intellectual decison based on the facts.

Cofty you cannot compare your own conclusions about God to that of a jury in a courtroom. Juries are randomly selected and if they weren't the whole judicial system would collapse. What happens with atheists is that they actually choose their own jury (all atheists who were victimized by religion) and THEN make the choice that God doesn't exist (it's an emotional conclusion, NOT a logical one). It's not about weighing evidence, it never was, that's just what you say you are doing when actually you are not simply becase you CAN'T. In the end you HAVE to have faith that God doesn't exist BECAUSE you cannot disprove his existence. You are trying to use the scientific method for something it's incapable of being used for which exposes it's limitations. You don't disprove the hypothesis that God exists, you prove it. If you try to disprove it you will wrongly convince yourself that God doesn't exist. You simply don't have the hardware to make the decision, but yet you do anyway AND you preach it others. Science is for things and God is NOT a thing, he's a spirit which CANNOT be tested by the scientific method. However there are sciences that deal with the issue of God which are being weeded out so that atheism and Science can take over what used to be the role of God. This is the definition of idolatry.

-Sab

Why aren't you an Atheist?

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